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So the Astros 2017 title is tainted

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by rockets13champs, Nov 12, 2019.

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  1. msn

    msn Member

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    Please, can you share some of this "evidence"? Even if it's anecdotal. I ask, because I really do hope it's there.
     
  2. SS0101

    SS0101 Member

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    Boston and New York are also stupid, then. As are all the others who have been "whispered" about. That list includes...

    Dodgers
    D-Backs,
    Blue Jays
    Rangers
    Cubs
    Nationals
    Brewers

    Basically, anyone who has had anything close to a run of dominance in the last decade.

    Also, while I respect your opinion (I always read your posts because I feel like you are very objective), right now you are sounding like one of the "headline" readers who doesnt read the whole story. Not saying you are, but you sound that way with this post.
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    Being "whispered about" is not evidence. Even ignoring the first-hand sources ratting the Astros out, the Astros managed to leave a digital email trail along with endless audio/visual evidence. There are tons of people who hate all the teams you listed - yet no one has managed to find videos where they can show evidence of cheating. I'm not sure how your statement disputes anything I said. Even if you think cheating is OK - and even more so if you think all these others teams are doing it - the Astros *still* were the only ones stupid enough to have gotten caught. (The Yankees/Red Sox were doing it before anyone told them not to - the Astros were caught after the MLB warning).
     
  4. Major

    Major Member

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    That's one of the many ways people get caught. People have access to game video. Why is it that, so far, people have only found video evidence of the Astros' cheating? You don't think there are tons of people out there pouring through video wanting to take down the Yankees or Cubs or Red Sox or Dodgers?
     
  5. SS0101

    SS0101 Member

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    Bleacher Report had an article just this October, heading into the playoffs, about how wide-spread illegal use of technology was. In this article there are half a dozen teams mentioned.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles...dy-inside-mlbs-war-on-high-tech-sign-stealing

    In the Athletic that had the Fiers' quotes, they said the cheating is wide-spread, while then singling out the Rangers and Brewers along with the Astros as the teams who are most "egregious" at it. Last week, Yu Darvish, while not specifically accusing the Brewers, he definitely insinuated as much with the Yelich eye movement thing. He backtracked and made it seem like he wasnt accusing him, but the point had already been made.

    Of course there are also the fines that were ALREADY handed down to the Yankees and Red Sox in 2017 which I am sure you know about?

    What is making this different for the Astros is that a player put his name to the finger pointing. Everyone wants to remain anonymous in making these accusations. Fiers, for whatever reason, was willing to put his neck on the line. Which pretty much anyone would agree is pretty stupid of him. Especially considering he is probably the worst pitcher to ever throw multiple no-hitters, and both times he quite apparently had a substance he was using to aid his grip.

    These arent the only articles. There have been others. While the "evidence" might not be concrete enough, neither is the "evidence" that is out there about the Astros either. Again, the only difference being a disgruntled former employee who put his name to it.
     
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  6. sew

    sew Member

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    "Illegal" sign stealing is likely a league wide practice, I have little doubts about this.

    The fact that players are willing to snitch on the Astros might say something about the culture within the organization.
     
  7. SS0101

    SS0101 Member

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    Ok, now this is my problem with the back and forth with some posters. Please, dont single out one line in my post and comment on that one line while leaving a bunch of context out. That will be the end of the discussion with you, for me. I absolutely cannot stand when posters argue that way. It is not any different imo than the misleading titles of these articles, when the context of the article suggest something totally different than the stupid click-bait title.
     
  8. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    That's the only defense Astros fans have right now. It's like arguing with political supporters. "Whatabout so and so, everyone else is doing it."

    Let's pray and hope that's the case or what will be the next excuse? The MLB doesn't want to expose anyone else but the Astros? We are being singled out? Stupid conspiracy theories to justify fandom. Pathetic in my eyes. Embrace the cut throat angle of cheating. This team was built on the foundation of Wall street bros. **** it. They cheat.
     
  9. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Best case for Houston is that the league investigation shows it is a rampant problem with multiple teams using technology as recently as this season. In that case, they will likely just create more specific rules and/or allow pitchers and catchers to wear headsets, and Houston will not even be punished.

    More likely is that only a few teams used technology since the league “addressed” it in 2017, and Houston is one of them. In which case, those culprits will be fined and penalized draft picks.

    Regardless, I don’t think this will result in Luhnow or Hinch getting canned. But whoever is running the Astros’ PR/media relations needs to be gone yesterday. I can’t remember another organization of any kind ever doing a worse job of handling an avalanche of negative press. It’s as if every bad thing that comes up is a total surprise to them.
     
  10. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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  11. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    Jordan was there when we swept the Magic; not hard to do some internet researching before they say that crap
     
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  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    When they literally have a map of where the bodies are buried... drawn out by a former disgruntled employee who was coaxed by a former disgruntled reporter of the team... its not hard to all of a sudden find videos and detailed examples.

    Its not like these videos existed prior to this story. This is pure retrospectoscope investigating that doesn't necessarily mean the Astros were "bad" at it, just that they do rub a lot of people the wrong way, enough so where they wanted to publish a "tell-all" that shows all their mis-deeds in regards to this.
     
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  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Neither the Apple Watch nor the YES camera stories were refuted... they just went away very quickly following the punishment.
     
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  14. SS0101

    SS0101 Member

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    Also, in regards to the YES Network accusation...almost anytime you bring it up, it will be refuted (usually by Yankees fans) with the claim of "that is not what they were fined for, they were fined for 'improper use of the bullpen phone'." While that is true, the official statement on the YES Network didnt refute the accusation, it said that "there was insufficient evidence" to officially say they were guilty of that specifically. Doesn't mean there wasnt evidence, just not enough for MLB to feel they could do anything about it.

    Just wanted to add that tidbit before someone chimes in that "they werent found guilty of that."
     
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  15. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Lol.....give me a break. These idiots were dumb enough to leave written evidence. Its like cheating on your wife with a stripper and using your credit card to pay for the champagne room.
     
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  16. SS0101

    SS0101 Member

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    I'd say more like going to pull out cash at the atm at the gas station next to the strip club. LOL
     
  17. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    More like your former friend or co-worker saw you there... and you pissed him off enough for him to go public.
     
  18. SemisolidSnake

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    I know there's been a few tidbits here and there, but has anyone actually really broken down the technical feasibility of all of this?

    I know that it's been pointed out that there's lag in the broadcast that would make it very hard to signal before a pitch was made. Maybe if you had your own camera beaming directly to the dugout that would cut that down. I dunno.

    I haven't been following this thread post by post, because I just don't have the mental stamina for it, so please just point me to the posts that do cover this if they already exist and don't waste extra time on me.
     
  19. marks0223

    marks0223 Astros STILL 2017 Champions
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  20. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Negative. They were using TRASH CANS to relay signs. They were sending unencrypted messages. They were sending blatant emails with their intentions. There's absolutely NOTHING smart about the way they were cheating. They were emailing correspondences to scouts. That's, not "smart" cheating. When a dumbass Yankee fan who makes youtube videos for a hobby can expose you to the league how the hell is that smart? I own a medical device company and just from my knowledge there are about twenty different devices they could've used to relay micro-electric impulses to the batters while they were hitting. There were SOOO many smarter ways to cheat then the bullshit they were doing. Its literally they did not give a **** about getting caught.

    When you're doing the **** that they were doing the last thing you can have is attention. Why in the world would you bring unwanted attention like Osuna when you know that brings nothing but heat. When you're sleeping with a stripper at the club are you going get into a fistfight with the bartender? The whole Taubman situation and Osuna situation put a big fkin bullseye on their back. Once again its as if they are too smart for themselves.
     
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