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So much hate the Rockets discussions as of late

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by backwardhead, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. i meow a lot

    i meow a lot Member

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    Lol! :p haha
     
  2. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    First of all, care to cite any examples? Secondly, I would say in response that there hasn't been much to be happy about for a very long time. People will point to the acquisitions of Harden and Howard in consecutive offseasons, but as a long-time Rockets fan, that doesn't do anything for me anymore if it doesn't result in postseason success.

    We traded for Scottie Pippen in early 1999. How'd that work out? First round exit. We traded Pippen the following summer and landed Steve Francis in a separate deal. What happened then? 4 straight lotto seasons. In 2002, we lucked into the #1 pick and drafted Yao Ming? The result? Another lotto season followed by another first round knockout. In 2004, we traded for T-Mac and paired him with Yao just as the Shaq/Kobe duo was breaking up. Yet what did we get? A first round loss(blowing a 2-0 lead coming home in the process), another lotto season, and 2 more first round losses after that(including a Game 7 defeat at home in 2007).

    Finally we got out of the first round in 2009 ironically after T-Mac went down for the year and Ron Artest essentially took over for him in the lineup(and the locker room). But that thrill was short-lived as Yao was lost to injury after Game 3 against the Lakers which pretty much sealed the Rockets' fate in that series. And while I won't fault the organization for Yao and T-Mac's brittle legs shortening their careers, that doesn't excuse the meltdown in 2012 that cost the team what should've been a virtually guaranteed playoff berth, the collapse in the final week of the 2013 regular season which left them facing OKC in Round 1 instead of the Nuggets, or the poor performance against the Blazers in 2014 which resulted in yet another first round defeat.

    Am I being negative? Yes. Overly or unfairly negative? I don't think so. Maybe I'm being a cynic, but I think this organization has earned some healthy skepticism. The potential to win titles doesn't mean anything. Not when they can't even win a single playoff series and you have to do that 4 consecutive times to become NBA champions. My response to anyone who has a problem with my negativity would be this. The Rockets need to win a playoff series. They need to improve in areas which they've neglected for years like defense, hiring a good head coach, and building a quality bench. Then I'll start to feel as excited about this team as other fans allegedly feel about theirs.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. napalm06

    napalm06 John Lucas University™
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    This pretty much gets to the essence of it. It's hard to be unrealistically positive when reality has been rough for a long time.
     
  4. KlutchQT

    KlutchQT Contributing Member

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    The thing that's disappointing (to me) is that there are people here who are obviously hungry for this team to fail so that they can be "right" in their opinions about McHale/Morey/Harden/whoever.
     
  5. studogg

    studogg Contributing Member
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    but why then does the pendulum swing to unrealistically negative?

    again - the naysayers paint everyone else on the far opposite side of the fence when in reality, most of us are saying we'd like to see the hand play out and at least feel good that we are walking into the season with Dwight, James, Patrick, Trevor and Terrence.

    Things have been way worse.

    I'm disappointed we lost out on Bosh. I'm disappointed we couldn't keep Parsons at a reasonable price. I'm disappointed we have apparently created a black hole offensive team that will be heavily dependent on Harden and Howard. I'm disappointed that we haven't added a defensive coordinator or outright fired Mchale. I'm disappointed that the bench has not been addressed beyond signing scrub retreads.

    I'm happy we didn't pay Parsons that ridiculous contract. I'm happy we have money available and a nice trade exception. I'm happy we got Ariza on a great contract. I'm happy that some of the negative backlash has the stars on our team accepting responsibility and recognizing they will have to be better to take us further.

    We aren't up against the cap. We do have some decent assets. We've got a very good starting five. We have an outstanding GM who has proven time and time again that he can find talent where others may miss it.

    Given all the above, I'm willing to point out the flaws, accept the reality, enjoy the offseason, and prepare to enjoy another season of Rocketsball with the hopes that they will figure it out. If they don't, then I wouldn't be shocked if several heads roll. I sure as hell wouldn't advocate trading a top ten player right now on the premise that I think he will fail in the future. Especially when the returning player is rated below him. People need to remember the basic rule in a trade. The team getting the best player almost always wins the trade. Quality over quantity.
     
  6. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    The theory behind your "disappointment" might not be reality.
     
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I think we got into a partisan vortex of sorts. The offseason didn't go well with Morey swinging for and striking out on Anthony/Bosh. Everyone has their own feelings on where things went wrong (Morey screwed up or Parsons betrayed us or Harden makes the team undesireable with his sorry no-defense-playing, teammate-dissing butt). When others disagree with one's take, they say it again, or louder, or in a more extreme fashion so as to make the argument more forcefully and persuade others of the position. But people in the other line of thinking see that and say 'everyone's gone off their rockers! Why do they hate X or Y?' I'm sure people think I'm a Morey-hater because I've been critical of him. It's hard to make the argument that Morey has made mistakes and also say he's a great GM -- it's true, but a confusing argument to make. People will read that and come away with only one element or the other -- either they think you're ultimately saying he's great or ultimately saying he sucks -- because they either want to cast you as an ally to their own argument or else find an enemy to argue against. If you're quick to say all these people just hate the Rockets, maybe you should look for the nuance of what element they hate and why. It's probably not as severe as it looks.


    Don't you remember the Steve Francis era? Franchise players can get it pretty bad once the honeymoon period ends. I think the key is being good on defense. Fan favorites tend to be guys who have a hard edge to them, something best obtained with some hustle on D (see Chuck Hayes, Pat Bev, for some examples). If you're a franchise player who plays good D, you're probably immune. See Olajuwon, Yao, even lesser lights like Cuttino Mobley, Otis Thorpe, and Vernon Maxwell. The only caveat is you can't completely suck on offense (like Ryan Bowen).
     
  8. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    How is it known that Harden and Howard don't lead to postseason success? Harden and Howard definitely improve the Rockets chances greatly.

    I've been negative mostly on Jones's defense. I may come off more negative than I am because it really isn't very interesting to discuss topics about Harden's offense. The topics on Harden's offense tend to be overly focused on his isolations and really not worth commenting on in my opinion as the discussions aren't centered on what's best for the Rockets (i.e. troll-infested). Granted, discussions on Jones have become like that.
     
  9. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    Despite my cynicism, I would never advocate trading Howard or Harden. Things may change if Harden has another "no D" season followed by another poor playoff performance(or God forbid we miss the postseason altogether). But right now, you don't trade away the best offensive shooting guard in the league.

    My concern is where this team goes from here. At the moment, Morey didn't leave himself much to work with. The Lin trade exception is nice, but unless another team is so desperate that they'll unload a quality player on the Rockets for nothing, what can you really get out of that? As for assets, we have them but we'd be forced to give up a starter like T-Jones or Bev. I don't think D-Mo, Canaan, or anyone else on that bench would qualify as an asset right now. All that's left after that is the NO pick.

    And the real concern is what happens if we flame out in the first round next season(or miss the playoffs). Then we enter Dwight's final season under contract(the dude WILL opt out) with everyone speculating on what will happen in the summer of 2016. And the Rockets will have to either give McHale an extension or hire a brand new coach before that season. So there could be all kinds of turmoil over the next few years.
     
  10. i3artow i3aller

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  11. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Great post, sir.
     
  12. studogg

    studogg Contributing Member
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    and we could exceed expectations and win the championship next year with the current roster - but I'm not cutting the ticker tape nor am I lamenting their demise prior to seeing them take the court and provide me a sample size to effectively assess.

    I just don't get how so many have become doomsday disciples and I could only guess that it's because negativity breeds.
     
  13. napalm06

    napalm06 John Lucas University™
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    This whole site has turned into a sociology discussion.

    Season can't come fast enough to put all of this worthless discussion to rest.

    We'll be in playoff contention and that's all I care about. No amount of over-thinking on my part is going to help the team.
     
  14. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    because passion can be love or hate but not indifference. if you post on a site, it usually is to exercise your passion.
     
  15. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I don't think people enjoy an individual game as much. While it is the GMs job to bring a championship and our jobs as fans to be arm chair GMs, it is also a fans job to enjoy a win irrespective of standings.

    If all a person cares about is a championship, they are usually going to be disappointed. LeBron is not a Rocket. Odds of winning a championship over next three years are probably not over 50%.
     
  16. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Sounds like you are ready to blow the team up after just one season one season with Howard & Harden. Good thing you weren't the Rockets GM in the 90s or you would have surely blown up Dream/Thorpe after 4 straight 1st round exits prior to winning the 1st ever Houston Rockets NBA championship.

    The mighty SA Spurs lost in the 1st round a few seasons ago only to follow it up with 2 straight NBA championship appearances and one championship.

    The Mavs lost in the 1st round prior to winning the NBA Championship. Dallas Radio personalities Ben & Skin, who thought like you, were referring to the Mavs as the "1 & done boys" because of their inability to get out of the 1st round and their belief that the Mavs had no chance to win a series with their current roster. Of course they had to eat a healthy serving of crow.

    Good teams sometimes lose in the 1st round. Sometimes they run into a team that happens to be hot and sometimes they just run into a bad match up. Give the Rockets a chance and you might be pleasantly surprised.
     
  17. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Tilman has Aids!
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    It is because we want a championship. We have two strong corner stones but the quality of our bench and role players seems to have slightly regressed. No one wants to see their team regress or be stuck in mediocrity. It's not hate it is just pissed or confused at the direction this team is headed.
     
  18. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    First of all, please don't compare the Rockets to the Spurs or Mavs. The Spurs lost in the first round in 2011, but before that they'd had lengthy playoff runs in several seasons and had won 3 out of 5 titles from 2003-07. Same with the Mavs. They didn't win a title til 2011, but they frequently got out of the first round prior to that, including a trip to the Finals in 2006.

    As for the Dream-era Rockets, they did have a bad stretch in the postseason, but they also were gradually adding pieces each offseason. OT, Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Carl Herrera, Horry and Cassell in the draft, and finally Mario Elie. This took years, but it was a series of moves that finally put a quality supporting cast around Dream. And the Rudy T hire(or promotion to be exact) as head coach was what brought it all together.

    BTW, keep in mind that out of all of those moves I listed, none were free agent signings. They were all acquired via trades or the draft. And none of them were superstars. Hell, none of them were All-Stars save for OT in a single season. In other words, the Rockets employed the exact opposite approach to building a contender vs what they've been doing since Les Alexander bought the team where it's all about trying sign or trade for big-name players.
     
    #138 count_dough-ku, Jul 28, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  19. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    I think this is the heart of Harden's criticism. Fair or not, if he is perceived to be lazy and selfish, he will get slammed by fans.

    Look at Scola. He's a below average defender at best. People occasionally bring up his poor defensive capability. But nobody would accuse him of being lazy or being checked out on defense because he clearly hustles on both ends.

    Landry was not a good defender either. But he's a fan favorite because he showed grit. And we loved him.

    Harden's image and demeanor is the opposite of grit and hustle. That's why his lack of defense is magnified and draws so much "hate." It doesn't help that he's a "cornerstone" we all put our hope on.
     
  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    If you are basing the Rockets doom and gloom on one season, that is all that should apply to Mavs and Spurs. If it takes more seasons to forecast a championship, give the Rockets more than one season before catastrophizing the next 2-3 seasons and beyond.

    Championships are rare. Rockets probably need a little bit more to win a championship, but they are not locked into any bad contracts and have a ton of flexibility. It probably doesn't work out, but almost every team has a less than 50% chance to win a championship in the next 3 years.
     

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