link LAST week, the Pew Research Center published the astonishing finding that 37 percent of African-Americans polled felt that “blacks today can no longer be thought of as a single race” because of a widening class divide. From Frederick Douglass to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., perhaps the most fundamental assumption in the history of the black community has been that Americans of African descent, the descendants of the slaves, either because of shared culture or shared oppression, constitute “a mighty race,” as Marcus Garvey often put it. “By a ratio of 2 to 1,” the report says, “blacks say that the values of poor and middle-class blacks have grown more dissimilar over the past decade. In contrast, most blacks say that the values of blacks and whites have grown more alike.” The message here is that it is time to examine the differences between black families on either side of the divide for clues about how to address an increasingly entrenched inequality. We can’t afford to wait any longer to address the causes of persistent poverty among most black families. This class divide was predicted long ago, and nobody wanted to listen. At a conference marking the 40th anniversary of Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s infamous report on the problems of the black family, I asked the conservative scholar James Q. Wilson and the liberal scholar William Julius Wilson if ours was the generation presiding over an irreversible, self-perpetuating class divide within the African-American community. “I have to believe that this is not the case,” the liberal Wilson responded with willed optimism. “Why go on with this work otherwise?” The conservative Wilson nodded. Yet, no one could imagine how to close the gap. In 1965, when Moynihan published his report, suggesting that the out-of-wedlock birthrate and the number of families headed by single mothers, both about 24 percent, pointed to dissolution of the social fabric of the black community, black scholars and liberals dismissed it. They attacked its author as a right-wing bigot. Now we’d give just about anything to have those statistics back. Today, 69 percent of black babies are born out of wedlock, while 45 percent of black households with children are headed by women. How did this happen? As many theories flourish as pundits — from slavery and segregation to the decline of factory jobs, crack cocaine, draconian drug laws and outsourcing. But nobody knows for sure. I have been studying the family trees of 20 successful African-Americans, people in fields ranging from entertainment and sports (Oprah Winfrey, the track star Jackie Joyner-Kersee) to space travel and medicine (the astronaut Mae Jemison and Ben Carson, a pediatric neurosurgeon). And I’ve seen an astonishing pattern: 15 of the 20 descend from at least one line of former slaves who managed to obtain property by 1920 — a time when only 25 percent of all African-American families owned property. Ten years after slavery ended, Constantine Winfrey, Oprah’s great-grandfather, bartered eight bales of cleaned cotton (4,000 pounds) that he picked on his own time for 80 acres of prime bottomland in Mississippi. (He also learned to read and write while picking all that cotton.) Sometimes the government helped: Whoopi Goldberg’s great-great-grandparents received their land through the Southern Homestead Act. “So my family got its 40 acres and a mule,” she exclaimed when I showed her the deed, referring to the rumor that freed slaves would receive land that had been owned by their masters. Well, perhaps not the mule, but 104 acres in Florida. If there is a meaningful correlation between the success of accomplished African-Americans today and their ancestors’ property ownership, we can only imagine how different black-white relations would be had “40 acres and a mule” really been official government policy in the Reconstruction South. The historical basis for the gap between the black middle class and underclass shows that ending discrimination, by itself, would not eradicate black poverty and dysfunction. We also need intervention to promulgate a middle-class ethic of success among the poor, while expanding opportunities for economic betterment. Perhaps Margaret Thatcher, of all people, suggested a program that might help. In the 1980s, she turned 1.5 million residents of public housing projects in Britain into homeowners. It was certainly the most liberal thing Mrs. Thatcher did, and perhaps progressives should borrow a leaf from her playbook. The telltale fact is that the biggest gap in black prosperity isn’t in income, but in wealth. According to a study by the economist Edward N. Wolff, the median net worth of non-Hispanic black households in 2004 was only $11,800 — less than 10 percent that of non-Hispanic white households, $118,300. Perhaps a bold and innovative approach to the problem of black poverty — one floated during the Civil War but never fully put into practice — would be to look at ways to turn tenants into homeowners. Sadly, in the wake of the subprime mortgage debacle, an enormous number of houses are being repossessed. But for the black poor, real progress may come only once they have an ownership stake in American society. People who own property feel a sense of ownership in their future and their society. They study, save, work, strive and vote. And people trapped in a culture of tenancy do not. Gates, a Harvard professor, explains how blacks who owned property right after slavery, decendants have done better than those who didn't.
Well I'm going to bump this thread even though people would rather pile on God's Son. One of the more interesting things in this column is that blacks don't see themselves as one group of people anymore which I find funny because when it comes to debates about race in this forum for instance, you always get people who assume that all black people subscribe to al sharpton's beliefs for example, or all black people are marching in jena, or all black people want to see don imus fired. Unfortunately I think this kind of thinking among black people will leave poor blacks even further behind in poverty and education.
I hesitate to open this can of worms, but when blacks were able to freely move and live where they wanted to, this begin the decline of the collective attitude (for good or bad). Layers and layers of people moved out to better their personal circumstances, which left poorer blacks behind. I don't think the problems of the black "underclass" should be born only by the black middle class, who didn't create them. It's an American issue that needs to be addressed by the whole nation. Unfortunately, ambulance chasers like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are sorry spokesman for the people they claim to represent. The sooner these dinosaurs are pushed off the national stage and replaced by credible, articulate leaders who don't rely on sensationalism to maintain their relevance, the better.
I think if you had an organization like the NAACP - National Association of Caucasian People - claiming to speak for what all white people need, then you might see the same thing with regards to whitey. Sharpton claims for himself the role of spokesman for all black people. He's been doing it for quite awhile now. If nobody speaks up as loudly and says “He doesn’t speak for me.” Then why should I assume that his claim is false? If you take issue with him claiming to speak for you, shouldn't that be between you and him?
an organization like naacp exists for a historical reason. it isn't going away anytime soon. it seems to me just like in god's son thread, people want to make a straw man out of the naacp or al sharpton because those are easy targets. just like its the only point you found worth while discussing in this thread.
That was pretty much the only point in post #2 in this thread. What other points in that post should I have been paying attention to? And, I'm not trying to say Sharpton is wrong, or the NAACP is wrong or trying to say anybody is bad. I'm just trying to say why it is like it is. The tide comes in because of the gravity of the moon. That doesn't imply that I'm saying that moon is evil.
Well, I hate to put a damper on it, but my reaction is... so what? Yeah - people (of any race) who rent do not have as bright a future as people who own. duh! So, what's a poor person to do? They can't afford to buy their property, right? And continuing to rent won't get them out of the lower class, right? Well, there's two answers: 1) work hard in school, get a job, and work your way out of the slums. This is very, very difficult. 2) join the military. This is the better solution. They get you physically fit. They feed and shelter you while you're in service. They train you. They discipline you. They better you. You get to serve your country. You get your college paid for. And then you have great options for getting a better job and getting out of the slum.... (assuming that you don't get sent to die somewhere in a middle-eastern desert). Those options are always available to people who live in slums. One of my best friends broke his family out of the hispanic slums by joining the army. He did great things for his family. It's tough, but it's possible and he'll attest to that. Now, if people are in the slums are too wrapped up in drug abuse, gang warfare, and other criminal activity... well then, they haven't demonstrated enough desire to get out of the slum. But that's a different story, isn't it?
110 words in the post. 16 Devoted to saying that people are piling on God's Son and the formality of explaining that you were bumping the thread. 73 Devoted to explaining that white people 'interestingly' always see black people as a homogenous group when they aren't. 21 Words devoted to explaining why people seeing black people as not a homogenous group is a bad thing (despite criticizing white people for your belief that they are incorrectly taking that exact position in the previous sentence). Perhaps you didn't accurately convey what you intended? I didn't want to read your long @ss column for something that didn't really seem to directly concern me, so I skipped it. I read your post which was mostly directed at criticizing people of my ethnicity on this BBS. I don't think it is unreasonable to be interested in what affects me.
i have no idea what you're talking about. if you really read the post as you claimed, the only point I was making is that people refer to black people in generalities on this board as if we all think alike. I don't know how you get I was criticizing your ethinicity out of that. i don't even know what ethincity you belong to. I didn't start this thread to get into a debat about how all black people don't follow al sharpton. it was just an example of misguided thinking about black people as one homogenous group. the fact that you want to continue to argue this point which I think is fairly clear and non debatable is telling about you, not your ethincity, whatever it is.
I apologize. Everybody who is not black. People on the BBS that aren't you. People who can stand on their head. Whatever. Ultimately a group that includes me and not you. But keep on with the personal jabs. I think it is telling about you.
I really don't understand what you find unreasonable about the point that all black people don't think alike and blacks have different values just like every other group of people, men, women, whites, hispanics, etc. and that in these threads it probably would be better off if when debating these topics people keep that in mind.
Would you be so kind as to point out where I said that this is bad or unreasonable? Please? If you want to save time don't bother because I didn't. I made a point about the origin/causes/source of that fallacious line of thought, and stated that the cause was not entirely whom you were implying. You chose to take issue with me. I chose to take issue with you taking issue. Repeat and rinse.
seemingly to argue the point that every other group is right in thinking that all black people think alike and following the likes of sharpton. continuing to justify that line of thinking, like I have to go out and shout from a mountain top that not all black people think alike and follow sharpton
Funny thing is .. . I thought the same thing about the folx like Strom Thurmans that once those old white men move on . .the more modern white man would be more egalitarian . .. but it seem that they are only replaced by those similar to them so Taking that into account. . .a New Version of Al and Jessie will just emerge Rocket River
I don't see the word bad, or undesirable, or right, or any sort of analog of that type of value judgement anywhere there. Please specifically point out the specific value judgement word, if you want to continue to claim that I'm saying anything like this. As I said before, I'm not talking about what is right and wrong or good and bad. As I stated before, when I say the moon causes the tide, I'm not saying the moon shouldn't exist or the moon is bad for causing the tide. It just is. What I'm saying is that if the head of the UAW says that he speaks for all auto workers, and all auto workers want to strike, I will believe him as long as nobody steps up and says otherwise. I simply don't have the time to run around and quiz every member of the UAW. Right and wrong are not factors. Thats just the way it is. If someone claims to speak for you and you don't contradict them, then I think it is reasonable to believe that you have acceded to them the right to speak for you. That’s just the way it works. All around the world. In all sorts of groups. That is the way it has worked since the beginning of time. It is simply the nature of group dynamics. I'm sorry if reality offends you. I appreciate that reality is often a pain in the @ss to deal with.
I think we can all agree that thinking one group does everything the same especially a race is bad. its the reason why you and others got so upset at the thread started by God's Son. Was it unreasonable for him to make sweeping generalizations. Why's it different for you? a union and a race are two very different things. the union leader, first of all is elected, secondly is speaking on things related to work, a very narrowly defined subject. race is a lot more complex, and to assume that all of one race subscribe to one line of thinking, is unreasonable and dangerous. I'm going to tell you like I told pouhe, a black poster, al sharpton is a media creation. the sooner everyone realizes, the better.
How about when Fred Phelps says that "God wants all fags dead."? The ardent Christians around here seem to not have any problem saying that Phelps doesn't speak for their God or their Church. Same thing with the Muslims in the USA when some whacko issues a fatwa that says that it is the duty of all Muslims to kill Americans. Are they all wrong for saying these things?