http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/06/26/insider.milestones/index.html For what it's worth, here are the rankings: 1) Bonds pursuit of 756 2) Roger goes for 350 3) A-Rod for 500 4) Junior Griff for 600 5) Glavine for 300 6) Biggio 7) Big Hurt for 500 8) Manny being Manny500 9) Thome (2000 ks) goes for 500 Personally, I think they ranked them perfectly.
Me, too, with two beefs: * I might switch Junior and A-Rod. Maybe. * Biggio missing "true greatness"?? WTF?? Only player in history to play an entire season and not GIDP. 50 steals, 50 doubles. 6th all-time (possibly finishing 5th) in doubles. And, did he point out everyone else's decline, or only Biggio's? I mean, they're not on the same plateau, but I'm pretty sure Willie Mays had a minor decline as well. I mean, the 6th rank is correct: but he's certainly "truly great". Those other milestones are just more significant. Craig Biggio is a top-ten ALL-TIME second baseman. All. Time.
1) I can see the Junior over A-Rod, but I can see A-Rod over Griffme as well because of the reasons they list 2) I agree with you here. I think Biggio is a truly great, but I think what they were talking about in terms of decline was that he has really limped towards 3,000 where a lot of the other guys who got there started liming afterwards. It's sort of like Fred McGriff limping towards 500 homeruns.
Eddie Collins, Honus Wagner, Nap Lajoie. There's an argument for Charlie Gehringer, too. When it's all said and done, Jeff Kent, at least offensively, certainly will have an argument--although defensively he's not close. Bidge is head-and-shoulders over others like Sandberg, Nellie Fox, etc. I should probably have said top five.
Wagner played 57 games at second. Those other guys are marginally better, glancing at the numbers, and one played half a career in the dead ball era, the other his entire career, so the numbers can lie (for better or worse).
Like I said, I meant to say Rogers Hornsby. The numbers can certainly lie. It's hard to compare players from different eras. Collins and Hornsby just really seem to be a notch above the rest, however--Morgan included. Then again, perhaps I minimize (or know nothing at all about) the impact their eras had on their careers.
hmmm.... i certainly agree with #1. i didn't read the article - i assume arod's #3 because he'll be the youngest to reach 500...? i'd still rank griffey/600 #2; he'll be just the 6th player in ML history to crack that many; thomas #3, considering he'll be only the 20th player in ML history to top 500 (as short-lived as it might be, it's still, *in the moment*, an impressive feat). i'd then rank: arod #4; clemens #5; manny #6; biggio #7; glavine #8; thome #9. agree, the "true greatness" comment is ridiculous. biggio's numbers are going to dwarf jeter's; but there'll be no shortage of "true greatness" talk when he retires.
I don't see how you can rank Frank above A-Rod. A_Rod will be the youngest ever to get to the same milestone Frank is going for, and is currently on pace to be the all-time homerun king when he retires. I also don't know how you can say Biggio's numbers will dwarf Jeter's when he retires considering we have no way of knowing Jeter's career path. Right now, Jeter has a stat line of (avg/obp/slg/ops) .318/ .390/ .464/ .854 to Biggio's .282/ .365/ .435/ .800.
i very nearly added after arod's ranking: "(but i'd be OK flip-flopping him and thomas)..." wow. i had to look it up - i had NO IDEA jeter had a career .390 ob%; so "dwarf" was a poor choice of words. he'll likely dwarf him in cummulative stats, and i just assumed jeter and biggio were roughly the same, averages-wise. f me.
In terms of count stats like doubles, Biggio is almost a lock to have better numbers. I do think Jeter will likely end up with more hits and will probably wind down more "gracefully." I do think though that in his prime, Biggio was a better player. Anyway, Jeter got so overrated a few years ago that he has become underrated. People think now that he's just some average joe out there getting love because he's in NY. He's an outstanding hitter. Example, Jeter has hit in something like 98 of his last 107 games or some crazy stat like that.
he's younger than i thought, too - 33 today. still, he's 750 hits away from 3k; that's 4 years at his current pace and i think he'll be hard-pressed to keep his current pace up as he creeps closer to 35, so not sure on the hits. but he does have the built-in advantage of having the DH option. but yeah, i had no idea he's been AS productive as he's been.
If Jeter plays 8 more seasons maintaining his career averages, he could end up with 4000 hits. That would be retiring at age 41. If he plays longer than that (maybe moving to first base or DH for a while) he could reach 4000 hits even with a slow decline. Outside of doubles and stolen bases, there is probably not a single number that will be in Biggio's favor. Jeter also won 4 WS in his first 5 years in MLB (which I don't weigh too heavily, but a lot of people will point to) and was a significantly better postseason performer.
biggio was on a 3,200+ hit pace when he was 33, and that was with two strike-shortened seasons thrown-in. 8 years later, he's limping to 3,000. expecting jeter to even remotely maintain his current pace as he approaches 40 is outlandish. so yes, 3,000 is likely and he'll probably wind up with more hits than biggio, too - like i said, i was not aware of how consistently good jeter has been.
