I've though for at least 2 years that the Astros have a great opprotunity to rebuild their franchise if they were willing to trade Oswalt. Lee and Berkman. My point is that if you aren't going to spend money to bring in free agents and you have a terrible farm system right now, why keep these top assets. Oswalt is a number 1 pitcher and Berkman is a franchise type hitter, Lee also would bring a hefty price. Am I wrong about this, what is Drayton thinking?
All three players have no-trade clauses. No team in their right mind wants Lee's contract anyway and he probably will not accept any trades. Oswalt probably has a short list of teams he would accept a trade to, and even then the Astros may not get much in return.
So are you against blowing the team up, or are you saying that it is impossible so it doesn't warrant a discussion?
The only player I wouldn't have a problem with moving is Lee if anyone is dumb enough to take him. I'd rather not see this team turn into the Pirates or Royals. I think the team is headed in the right direction, most people here just don't have the patience to wait that long.
It is impossible. Lee - Has a no trade clause that he has stated many times he will not waive. Besides, at this point, he is the most consistent offense that we have. Berkman - Face of the franchise. Has a no trade clause. Likely will not play past his current contract. Not likely to get what you would think in return. Oswalt - Now an oft-injured former ace who is well past his prime. His trade value has plummeted recently. That being said, he is the most tradeable out of the players you mentioned. I would move Oswalt while you can still get some value for him, but Lee and Lance are not going anywhere.
Well, the question is, can the Astros possibly reload rather than rebuild? I can't think the answer is yes unless Drayton REALLY opens up his wallet. So I think the team should stop signing old scrubs and start pouring money into the minor leagues. Or sign a young stud in FA. Since there's no salary cap in baseball, even moving salary can be considered rebuilding. Trades don't have to incorporate equal return in terms of pure talent. And while Berkman and Lee may not want to move, they may not want to be surrounded by scrubs either. Depending on how much they care for winning, they could very well waive their no trade clauses if the team gets blown up. Even if all three are untouchable, the Astros can still rebuild around them.
Ownership is stupid. If Roy and Lance had been traded two seasons ago, and if these high priced band aids had never been signed, we'd be well on our way to having a young up and coming team. As it is, the team is years away. There is one good thing about this season, however. The fans stayed home and the owner finally found out that there's only so much manure you can shovel before ticket buyers say enough is enough.
Lee's full NTC expires after next season. At $19 mil through 2012, it would probably take a big market team to go after him. If he has nother solid year, he may be movable before or during the 2011 season. The team that picks him up would only have his contract on the books for 1.5 years if he's moved before the 2011 deadline. At this point, I don't see Berkman retiring any time sooner than 2013 and I expect him to be an Astro for life. I don't see Roy going anywhere either unless he wants out. As far as blowing this team up, there isn't much to blow up if you assume Roy and Berkman stay. Lee is the most likely candidate to shave payroll and that won't happen until after the 2010 season. Beyond that, they need to put every effort into scouting, drafting and developing effectively.
A couple of things: 1. Roy and Lance have no trade clauses. It would have been very difficult to move them. 2. You say we would be well on our way to having an up and coming team. Maybe. You assume that the prospects we would have gotten in return would have become productive. I distinctly remember how Chris Burke was considered a can't miss prospect. It just isn't that easy.
The reason this organization is underperforming is because it let its farm system fall apart. The solution is beyond merely "blowing things up." They need to change their entire philosophy and approach when it comes to scouting, drafting and developing players. If they've already started doing this, they need to continue in that direction. It will take time. If we draft and develop well year in and year out, we'll eventually have more young players outproducing the value of their contracts and we won't face the need to overspend in free agency to have a chance to contend. Instead, we'll be able to use free agency to get that final piece or two to the puzzle. Small market teams have to maximize their scouting, drafting and development to be contenders. Big market teams have more flexibility. They have the pocketbooks to fill numerous holes through free agency (see 2009 Yankees). If they draft and develop well on top of having deep pockets, that's when they have their most noticeable advantage over the rest of the league. Mid-market teams, like the Astros, need to balance things out. They don't need to rely almost exclusively on their farm to be contenders but they aren't the Yankees or Red Sox, either. They need to always be taking advantage of both their farm system and free agency. They shouldn't neglect either source of talent. The Astros are in a bad position right now. Even though we aren't a small market team, we have more holes than we can afford to fill through free agency. We don't have enough low-cost, high production players coming through the system. Ignoring the NTCs, momentarily, even if we were to move Lee, Berkman and Oswalt, that still wouldn't be enough. This organization needs to be drafting and developing well on a consistent basis or they will end up in this same situation again down the road, assuming they eventually fix the current mess. I'm not saying don't trade any of those three guys, either. Unless you think we're close to being contenders, it couldn't hurt to move them and add more prospects to the system. My main argument is simply that management needs to understand the importance of continuously devoting resources to scouting, drafting and development, whether or not they trade Lee, Berkman or Oswalt. As fans, we'll just have to be patient and hope they do that. Blowing things up right now isn't even really an option and even if it was, it would only be the tip of the iceberg. Hopefully, there is a real philosophical change going on in the front offfice regarding the importance of always keeping our farm system healthy.
Only if the player consents. Lee and Berkman have fairly consistently indicated that they would not consent. Oswalt has stated that he would do so under limited circumstances. Man you act like the team can trade the guys because they want to. Teams do not trade players under a NTC "all the time." It took almost a year from the Padres to trade Peavy. It isn't a snap of the fingers thing and frequently is an absolute deal breaker.
Seriously??? They didn't trade Lance and Roy, so they're stupid?? The only teams in the league that would have traded a Lance Berkman or a Roy Oswalt a couple of years back are teams that just simply couldn't afford to keep them around. And I can't even imagine the backlash they would have faced from the fans had they done it.
I think Oswalt is the most likely to be traded, and my guess is they'll listen to offers this offseason. It will come down to whether Oswalt wants to go to the trading partner or not. Just a hunch.
I think an astute front office would've tried to trade them a couple of years ago. The Astros had no talent in the farm. Their major league talent was good enough for 4th place in the division. And they don't have Yankee-like spending room. And as far as fan support goes, I think two years ago fans would've accepted more. You'd have a better case saying that last year might cause fan problems because of our bloated record. Even then, fans stop showing up when the team start sucking. Compared to how long the rebuilding process is likely to be from this point onward, I feel that any fan backlash from that time is nothing if the management manged to make good use of the money saved and prospect they received from the trades.
I think all of that is very easy to say in hindsight. 2 years ago we were only 1 season removed from a World Series appearance. We were coming off a season where we finished 1.5 games back from the Cardinals for a division championship (2006). I can't imagine fans being ok with that then. I'm guessing that there would have been those here who might now look back and think it would have been the right decision...who then would have gone ape-crap crazy. The "Drayton is cheap" birds would have been chirping loudly. Inherent in all this is some concept that getting prospects is always the way to go....but prospects usually don't pan out.
Perhaps. I've always been more pragmatic than most fans. So two years ago was already thinking the team was going nowhere fast. Yes. But no prospects means you suck forever. I'd prefer to take something that at least gives the team a chance to win, rather than something which gives ZERO chance of winning. The inherent volatility of prospects have fans and owners think them useless and mere chips for trades. But even the Yankees and the Red Sox relied on underpaid, homegrown talent to make their WS runs. A team where everyone gets paid their market value is destined to forever wallow in mediocrity.
