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Should Harden take a mid-range jumper if left open or dared to?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by cheke64, Apr 25, 2019.

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Should Harden take a mid-range shot if dared to or left open?

  1. Yes

    137 vote(s)
    93.2%
  2. No

    10 vote(s)
    6.8%
  1. LorneMalvo

    LorneMalvo Member

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    Opting for the 47% floater is better and more dynamic because of the lob threat against basically ANY team except Utah and Milwaukee.
     
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  2. LorneMalvo

    LorneMalvo Member

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    Harden should have definitely shot some foul line jumpers.
     
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  3. smp

    smp Member

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    Interesting poll. I’m not surprised by the results at all though.
     
  4. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    Absolutely he should every now and then. His refusal to attempt a midrange jumper this last series was a primary reason for his poor shooting efficiency relative to his norms. As long as he has that hole in his game his efficiency will go down against good defenses.

    The player was right on his back at the 3 point line, but once he went inside they were always a step or two behind. He could have easily raised up in stride for a jumper every time.
     
  5. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    False. some of yall really need to watch the actual games again
     
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  6. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    I watch every second of every game. Every time someone like Rubio was on his back, he'd hesitate for a sec and then take a quick step forward, creating separation between himself and the defender behind him. In this window, he absolutely could have pulled up instead of taking it in for contested floaters against the league's best defensive center.

    Now, it's not like he had all the time in the world, he couldn't pause and lean back with a jumper, but if he steps into his shot in stride he could absolutely get it off. Hell, he got this shot off with Kawhi right behind him:

     
  7. harold bingo

    harold bingo Sengun Only Fan
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    I'm glad you brought this up because I think it raises two good questions.

    1) Do you consider that an open shot? The defender isn't in front of him, but if you're going by "defender distance" that's about as tightly contested as you can get, his defender bumps him in the back. It's not a traditional contest, but having someone behind you like that would certainly bother your shot. Still, it's much easier than if the defender was that close in front of you.

    2) What percent of the time do you think Harden makes that shot? I don't think anyone would disagree that the shot similar to the clip you posted is available to him on every possession. A running jumpshot with a defender basically bumping you from behind. But is it a good shot? How often does Harden make that shot? 50%, 40%, 30%? This is probably where a lot of us would disagree. In my opinion this shot goes in well under 40% of the time.
     
    #87 harold bingo, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
    jordnnnn likes this.
  8. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Of course he has to take that shot, there's one possesion left in the game. if you're telling me an off balance fading mid range jumper is a better choice than his floater, alley, or pass for an open 3 than you just see the game in a puzzling manner. Bc that is such a horrible shot in the middle of a game.

    @marky :) already posted a vid in this thread of what harden saw all series long. That entire video consists of 0 possessions where harden was apparently left so wide open in the mid range, that he could just stop gather himself and raise up for a wide open shot. yet apparently some fake narrative has been created that this was open during the series. So odd. You have some weird desire for harden to get ginobli'd over and over. and then when that happens people are gonna transition themselves to why isn't harden using his floater or taking it to the basket :rolleyes:

    I would love for someone to show examples of this actually happening bc all the footage shows otherwise. Yet we have some of cf's who just love to play role of they see what the rockets don't see. try proving if you're gonna claim something is there
     
    #88 YOLO, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  9. the shark

    the shark Member

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    Not just yes....but HELL YES!!!!

    It's one thing shooting 3s but he's taking bull$&%t 3s where he's off balance (not getting his feet squared). Even on the step back his feet are squared (some of these other shots are flat out HORRIBLE).
     
  10. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    I don’t think that’s true. At all. Completely underestimating the defenders ability to recover and have an EASY look at a block from behind.

    [​IMG]

    Not the exact same defense but is easy to see. Harden easily gets by, has a step on the defender he recovers and it’s easily blocked from behind. I’m not gonna sit here and say that he couldn’t have squeezed off a few decent looks from midrange, but the notion that it was wide open for the taking all series is ridiculous.

    His efficiency was watered down because the Jazz and the refs did a good job of keeping him off the line and forcing him away from his bread and butter step back 3. Midrange Js wouldn’t have made it better. He shoots the floater more accurately than he shoots midrange.
     
  11. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    Ginobili took a calculated risk that's why he jumped before Harden settled for the 3 pointer. Harden left him in the dust and couldve taken a midrange jumper from any random spot making it impossible for Ginobili to plan his block
     
  12. rocketsfan611

    rocketsfan611 Member

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    YES. But only if the defense forces him into this...and ONLY until they make another adjustment. He doesn't need to be taking 5-6 mid range shots a game.
     
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  13. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    I posted that video as a demonstration that he could in fact get the shot off even if the defender is right behind him as you suggested. You stated he couldn't, and I posted evidence otherwise. My original point (which you didn't address) was that there would be more space than that between him and the defender behind him in a typical scenario which I observed throughout the game.

    I watched that vid (which was set to start at around the 6:00 mark) for about 20 second and at 6:17 Harden has no one within like 3 feet of him, easily enough space to rise for a jumper. On that play he passed out and we got a 3, but the fact that the very first play I saw there was clearly enough room for him to rise up for a midrange shot is clearly evidence that he had plenty of space.

    Now, to be clear, I'm not advocating that Harden take a bunch of midrange shots. But when the alternative is a tough floater over perennial DPOY candidate Gobert then it's not a bad option to mix in every now and then. I'm talking a few a game lol. His floater efficiency this series was horrendous.

    I don't consider that a great shot, but it's certainly a cleaner look than most of his floaters over Gobert. I mention this above but in case you didn't read it, I'm not posting that as an example of a shot I want him to take, I'm posting that as proof that Harden can, in fact, get a shot off with a defender right behind him, unlike what YOLO and others were suggesting.

    Probably in the mid 30% if I had to guess. But with repetition, he could definitely shoot that 15 footer (he is an almost 90% shooter from the line folks) with greater efficiency than a contested floater over Gobert, which he had a terrible percentage. In years past when he took more midrange shots he was in the 40-50% range.
     
  14. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    so in that instant he should of taken a midrange 3 instead of kicking it out to a EG in rhythm for a swished 3. what exactly is the issue there. this makes no sense tbh. we're now at the point of harden needs to get this shot instead of the rockets scoring on a hot shooting EG.
     
  15. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    Look how much time is on the clock. Ginobili knew he had to shoot which is why he jumped well before Harden raised up for the shot. In a typical possession, a defender wouldn't be able to anticipate that.
     
  16. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    why wouldnt they? is harden immune to being blocked or something
     
  17. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    That's not what I'm saying at all. I acknowledged that we got a 3 on that particular possession. But there were plenty of others where he drove into the teeth of the defense and got stuffed at the rim. If he can pass out to an open 3, then that's better than a midrange shot. Again, you stated that he wasn't open all game from midrange, and on the VERY FIRST clip I looked that he clearly was lol.
     
  18. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    Sounds like you are not thoroughly reading my responses or are intentionally being dense, so I'm gonna stop replying now. I have no Idea what point you're trying to make here lol.
     
  19. dkim1984

    dkim1984 Member

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    Yes but as a super last resort. But if they do, I have faith in both our boys. Both being only Harden and Paul. Everyone else just know your role.
     
  20. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    And im actually waiting for clear examples of those. im more interested in proven claims instead of just general assumptions on what someone thinks they might have seen
     

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