[Not sure whether this should go here or in NBA forum] Anyway today's game vs. Spain featured an epidemic of Stockton/Divac style floppage. I noticed it hte most by Spains Backcourt players, who would apply pressure to the US guards when bringing the ball up and then launch themselves backwards as if Marbury or Iverson fired a 12-gauge shotgun blast at them. Fortunately, the officials didn't seem to buy much of the act, so no real harm there, but that kind of stuff is just ugly and ridiculous even if there is no foul called. Anyway, my impression is that in the past decade or so is that floppage became an epidemic in soccer, particularly European soccer, and that they started aggressively enforce rules by calling fouls and yellow ccarding the flopper rather than the floppee. Shouldn't we start doing that in FIBA ball too, and even the NBA? Maybe give technical to the flopper? I hate floppage, it's just not part of the game. It's lying to the officials, in my opinoin. Did the NBA ever do anything about this? I remember it became an epidemic a few years ago when the Kings were going at it with the Lkers, but the furor seems to have died down.
I don't know that it should be a foul... when it happens in soccer, it's usually the offensive player who has lost the ball, and is hoping for a penalty kick. In basketball, it usually happens when the defensive player has either lost position or never had an advantage to begin with... If the flop doesn't interfere with the offensive player's move to the basket, I think it should be a non-call (maybe with taunting allowed after the offensive player dunks on the prone, writhing flopper). If the flop does interfere, yes... it should be a foul... and maybe a wedgie.
Yes, I think a flop should be a foul on the flopper, like it is in soccer. You try to cheat, you get punished.
In hockey they've started calling 'unsportstmanlike conduct - diving' penalties. I think that was a good move.
Well I think it's pretty insane for a defensive player to do that, because it will cost your team on the score board, it almost never happen in football. If the refs don't buy it, usually it will be an easy basket coz the defender is down on the floor. If the refs buy it, then it won't make a difference anyway. It's very hard to judge. refs very rarely call it in football, usually just wave it off. And when it happens on occasion, it will be some star players got sent off and kills a great game. It doesn't really discourage people doing it either. Since the rule was implemented flopping became ever more popular. Just don't make a big deal of it and don't call it a few times for some easy score probably will be better solutions.
if the refs ignore it, it will go away. besides, i thought you republicans favored fewer constraints on personal freedom...
Most of the flops are hard to judge. Even if the referees can make calls on replays, lots of the calls will still be very subjective.
As much as I hate flops it is very tempting to say yes. The problem is that this would have to be a judgment call by the refs and I don't think the refs are competent to make such a call. Imagine the first time one of our players got called for a flop at the end of a game only to watch the other team make the game winning free throws while the replay clearly showed that our player did not flop but was in fact fouled. It would drive me nuts.
I would think that assessing a technical for an early flop or two, even if they were borderline, would go a long way towards discourageing players from flopping for the remainder of the game. Obviously, in certain situations, calling it is not appropriate (if it only hurts the offensive team or towards the end of the game), but I think early deterrence would work wonders.
Agree. For instant a little guy running into Yao Ming. I mean for some lighter players it will knock them on their ass but it won't for Yao. I don't mind seeing Yao flop since he doesn't get knock out easily. Larger players are at a disadvantage here when they try to stand their ground when obviously it might not seems like a hard foul if they dont fall or budge.
In soccer, a player will get a red card and be out of the game right away if he flops. If they use the same rule in basketball, Gasol would not play more than one quarter in every game.
Imagine Shaq bulldozing into you real hard and you decide to stand your ground. It's obviously a foul on Shaq part but if you dont flop you won't get the call. Fair is fair.
The ones I'm most concerned about are the blatant backcourt flops. You seem to see these more often, because if a player flops in the perimeter or the backcourt (like the spanish today), it's not an automatic two for the other side because there are still 4 more guys between the floppee and the basket. Obviously for big men inside the paint, intentionally flopping in front of Shaq or Yao right in front of the basket is riskier because you are more likely to be the last man between him and the basket. (obviously, in NBA rules if you're in the no-charging circle flopping has no value) You could just have a rule where you don't call ny flop fouls within the paint, or in the three point line to alleviate this.
No, the player will not get a red card right away. By the rules, he should get a yellow card. If he does it again or commits a serious enough violation afterwards, he might get a second card, which would be the yellow/red card, and he would be out for the remainder of the game and for the next game. But people normally don't get a red card for one flop.
You seem to be describing Derek Fisher- a pretty well built guy who likes to flop on the ground like a baby.
completely agree Sam.. myself and a friend of mine have talked about this for years... a tech, a personal foul or even a public whipping.... think all it would really take was refs for few weeks in a particular season to call blocks on anyone flopping religously and maybe the players will learn
No whipping might be necessary if you are playing under FIBA rules, I just answered my own question: FIBA Rulebook, Rule 38.3.1 http://www.fiba.com/asp_includes/download.asp?file_id=328 So I guess the question is enforcement. Can't find any corresponding NBA rule though: http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12.html?nav=ArticleList
