Okay, I just wanted to post that I saw one of the most disgusting things ever in my whole life today. I dropped my girlfriend of at class this morning and I'm driving down Guadalupe near UT campus in Austin. There on the corner was a chick standing next to a pair of 7 foot signs that said something to the extent of "Military presence in Iraq is for the better, right?" with an enormous picture of a burned, dismembered baby. It was insanely graphic and was coupled with another billboard that showed another baby that had been blown to pieces somehow and then laid out on a gurney like a puzzle. I mean, I'm glad these people are motivated and opinionated, but that just made me want to take an exactly opposite stance on the issue than those people just because they are complete morons. It's just another example of people trying to shove their opinions down other people's throats the fastest way possible. I don't agree with that at all, for instance: The "Truth" campaign that is often an irrelevant half-"truth" blown out of proportion with a grotesque punch line. Any- and everything Peta. Half of the anti-drug ad campaigns. Some of this stuff shouldn't even be legal. I mean, where do you draw the line? Your thoughts?
I agree with the shock stuff, those guys are exploiting those poor children to get their opinion accross. I don't have a problem with letting people know what can and does happen in a war, because some people trie and romanticize it too much, but putting up those billboards is crossing the line. Now, what are the half truths in the Truth campaign you speak of? I tried searching really quickly, but got bored with the zero results I was finding.
There were some pro-life people that had something similar a few times last year in front of Gregory. I think it was pics of aborted fetuses.
By that same token, I don't like the anti-abortion ones either. But I guess both causes believe somehow grossing people out may save someone's or the case of those idiots at Peta, something's life.
Yeah, thoose abortion wack-jobs travel around to college campuses with twenty-foot high aborted-fetus pictures....UNT did not allow them a couple of years ago because of the complaints
Okay, I guess it would have better been stated "not whole truths." I can't specifically quote any of them, but there's one that says "In (so-and-so year), a major tobacco company executive proposed that the company use ice cream trucks for advertisement." and then goes on to show a bunch of kids chasing an ice cream truck. Sure, somebody probably said that and sure the one where they quote an "office document" with something really off the wall is probably true too; but it was probably just an idiot RJ Reynolds employee with a half-brained idea that got immediately shot down. Basically, you can tell a lot of those are blatantly over-exaggerated and then they run with their exaggeration of the "truth" and feed people this shock scene to divert from the fact that their inside info is relatively unfounded. I mean, I'm all for what they're trying to do, but if they want to attack the tobacco companies why not just try and better inform people of the risks their taking by smoking without resorting to the sensory attack? If they would show birth-weight stats instead of showing an exaggerated drawing of a smokers baby; if instead of *SCREAMING* their point at me they simply stated it, I might listen to what they have to tell me. Basically, what I meant by "Half Truths" was that the "truth" they're trying to relay isn't totally substantial some of the times; and when it is, it's mainly common knowledge so they use the shock tactic to dramaticize it. "Truth" should be enough by itself.
By abortion wack jobs I hope you mean the people who brought the huge pictures and not people who are pro life.
a picture tells a thousand words.. pictures got us out of a worthless war in Vietnam.. they may be grotesque...they may be awful...but you can't argue with their veracity. you may interpret them different from me...but i can' t really spin them to you without using my own words. i have no problem with it. if it's truth, it's truth. we may not want to see it...we may not want to confront it. but it's there, nonetheless.
There is, on the other hand, something to be said for the opinion that we are the most insulated nation on earth, while at the same time being the people who make the most decisions which effect other people in other countries, so having us face the unpleasant aspects which are sometimes the result of our actions and decisions, and which people in other countries have no choice but to see, only in real life might make our decisions on our actions more informed.
How is showing the truth exploitation? American bombs *DID* that. Those images are just as relevent to the "war" as any flag-waving soldier picture we see. Those dead children were the cost of our "victory." Does it make you uncomfortable? Good! Waging war should *NEVER* be comfortable. Why are Americans so hungry for images that justify our position, but yell "Exploitation!" or "Shock value!" when images of murdered children are shown? They're our responsibility! These are the *REAL* pictures of war, and the moment we forget these images is the moment we lose our humanity.
I didn't see this, but I live in Austin and have driven down that street more times than I can count... often with my son and daughter. I don't think my daughter, who just turned 8, should have to be subjected to images like those described by Dallas or neXXes. My 12 year son is sophisticated enough to deal with it, although I could do without him seeing them as well. There are plenty of graphic images on TV, in magazines, and on the internet that I can at least attempt to keep my kids from seeing. My children have grown up with parents who have traveled the world and discuss politics, cruelty, dictatorships... a wide variety of subjects... with them frequently. But they shouldn't have to see something like this while going down the street in a car to get ice cream or see a movie. In my opinion, of course.
Well put and as someone with a son the same age as your daughter, I would not them exposed to such images. I would rather not have to interrupt my normal time with them to discuss why there are pictures of bloody dead babies from bombs, abortion doctor clamps or whatever. We do agree on something. At the dinner table, we always have two discussions. First both my kids must tell me what really happened in school that day. Second we talk about what is going on in the world and how it affects them. Both my children have quite a bit of understanding of politics, believe or not. They've watched all the schoolhouse rock stuff. The funniest thing was when my daughter went to vote with me yesterday, she said, "Why would anyone want to be in the donkey party?" All I can answer was, "Sweetheart, I just don't know." I try to limit my children's exposure to the filth of the outside world as best I can. I'd rather them have the joys of a normal childhood and develop naturally rather than force them to grow up far to quickly after being desensitized to all these graphic images.
So to ACTUALLY SEE the results of our actions . . OFFENDS you? Whether it be the War or the Abortion The thing is. . . Everything is so SANITIZED why does the death penalty not work??? It's so fricking HUMAN and only about 100 people get to actually see it. I promise you . .it would have a better impact if at 7:30 pm on all channels. You see the deserving b*stard [The Guilty not the Accuser but THE GUILTY] tied to a chair and brutally slain . . . . . I think that would be more effective Easy to Bomb People . . .but to see the results. . . . As per most things in America . . . WE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT nto becuase we think it is right or wrong IMO Helmet laws is not about safety It is about people not having to look at you brains on the road and traffic from other people seeing ya brains on the road you fellow man pretty much could care less. Sometimes IT seems we REALLY don't mind tragedy as long as we can be ignorant of it Rocket River
The pictures have public benefit. They should also give fair time and show pictures of tortured and dismembered Iraqis courtesy of the baath party (I think that's what DT meant by 'The "Truth" campaign that is often an irrelevant half-"truth" blown out of proportion with a grotesque punch line.'. Deckard's point is also a good one. I would not be happy if my 2 year-old saw those pictures. I doubt those students even considered that.
I don't know if this was aimed at me or not, but I was out on the street protesting the Vietnam War before many of you were born. I felt the same way then about carrying graphic pictures of children blown to bits as I do now. At least I'm consistent. Others did it. And I understand where they are coming from, believe it or not. I just disagree with the tactic. If it's on the campus, sure... if that's your thing. The news will cover it and you'll get your message in the media. I just don't think it should be on a busy street in front of kids. If it's a large demonstration, the streets would be cordoned off (they used to do that sort of thing in my day) and it's not a problem. I'm not naive. War is hell. I was against Vietnam, but there are times when you are not left with a choice. It's not something to be entered into unless all else fails. Wars has unintended consequences. They always do. I think going to war with Iraq was a mistake. I think we were mislead by the Administration. I think all the diplomatic options were not persued. I think this Administration planned poorly for what would happen after the military victory (of which there was no doubt). I think this is one of the most diplomatically inept Administrations in my lifetime. Possibly the worst. Bush is an idiot. Did I leave anything out?
DallasThomas, I think you saw pro-life protesters: http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/550294.html I saw them on my way to class this morning and I was shocked. They also brought their young kids (<10) for the fun.
I sympathize Deck, but clearly there are many things that parents around the world would rather their children weren't exposed to...say bombs, for instance...and we don't give that a whole lot of consideration when making decisions which will cause just that kind of exposure. If you want proof, take a look at the kind of posts that were flying fast and furious in here during the initial stages of the war... You will see a lot of Pax Americana! logos...plenty of bragging about the American Empire...much gloating aver the pounding we were giving Iraqis ( you know, the guys we were there to save),etc. What you won't see a lot of is concern over what iraqis children were exposed to. And when the Arab television channel did exactly that, showed the real life results of our bombs, you will see plenty of calls for that Arab station to be likewise bombed. So forgive me if I feel that many of us reach too quickly for the violent answer to problems in other people's back yards. 'War is hell' is a nice catch-phrase, but unfortunately the vast majority of Amseican people have never been any closer to it's reality that television, yet still feel able to use it as a dismissal for bringing that reality to other people. The best...the only way we have of making it slightly more real to that populace...not as real as it becomes to the Panamanians, when we decide we want to control the Canal...not as real as it is to the Iraqis when we decide we need to be protected from their WMDs....etc....but still, the best we can hope for is to at least confront the populace whi glibly state 'war is hell' without really knowing what that means, with pictures of that reality. Sadder still, that is too much for many of us. I understand your desire to protect your children from that kind of image, but understand that it is the best way we have of protecting children in other countries from that kind of reality.
MacBeth -- I think we live in a culture that simply doesn't want to be disturbed. We'll plunk down $7 to see a horror film or a bloody action film...but we're absolutely offended if you show us something real...something we may have to be accountable for. Now we love to see other people make fools of themselves in reality TV which is nothing more than a pseudo-reality. But if we prosecute a war, we don't wanna see the results...and if we give a pat on the back to abortion doctors, we don't wanna see pictures or hear that the child in the womb actually feels pain. We don't want to know those things...so we shut our ears and our eyes. But we do love phrases like, "seeing is believing," or "a picture is worth a thousand words." So in some way...we all know it's truth...and that truth has to be confronted. But we'll get to it later...because we're getting ready for dinner and a movie. And I'm as guilty of that as anyone.
