Wow. I kinda knew this was really going to happen as I've been hearing A LOT of talk regarding to the Matrix going to Mavs going down... Now the rumours turn out to be legit since Rick Bucher's reporting it as legit NEWS instead of rumors. Good to see Toronto actually got SOMETHING and not having to renounce his rights for NOTHING. Its something right??? Jerry Stackhouse 7 mil Jose Juan Barea 2 mil for Shawn Marion 8 mil Roko Ukic 1 mil sounds about right?
It's a S&T. I doubt Toronto would want to give up Ukic who showed promise and single-handedly burnt the Spurs last season. Also Stackhouses's contract adds $2M to the payroll if they're just going to waive him. IMO Marcus Banks has to be included for the Raptors to be even slightly interested.
hey wait is this actually news or just pure speculation?! Just read his twitter and hes basically saying if it happens it will be done tomorrow at the earliest....BUT thats IF its even going down... man the thread title sounded misleading as if its a done deal... this is what I found from the Dallas Morning Times
The Dallas paper says it's on hold. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...mavs/stories/070809dnspomavsdate.3f12044.html
um some more info from realgm: Don't seem like its going down unless some serious young talent gets thrown into the deal for that team with salary cap to be involved like OKC or Memphis. Um Brandon Bass sign and trade?
Here's what they mean by getting a 3rd team involved: Toronto doesn't want to add Stackhouse's 2 mil salary to their cap. So one way to do this is to have Dallas trade Stackhouse and his 7 mil to OKC, creating a 7 mil trade exception to Dallas, which would then send the trade exception to Toronto for Marion. Of course Dallas would have to include cash considerations or picks to both Toronto and the 3rd team. Lol at Toronto trying to put Marcus Banks in the deal, Dallas is giving them free money and they're getting greedy.
Players who are signed and traded cannot be traded in combination with any other player. So it's Marion, and only Marion, leaving Toronto...at least in that deal.
That's often pointed out but it's not true. A recent example would be Keth Van Horn. Van Horn was S&T + packaged with other players by the Mavs when they traded for Jason Kidd.
teams circumvent that by agreeing to two separate deals. marion for stackhouse then banks for whatever they agree on.
wat you said above is exactly what I had in mind. I thought it was common knowledge to most folks here so I didn't lay it out all the way like that. I was just saying, given how the trade would have to go down with the 3rd team involved, the 3rd team is not going to take on that contract for nothing right? Here is a very close example for a salary dump to a team that can take back salary without having to send anything back: Kurt Thomas trade to Seattle---back when there was still the Seattle Supersonics and Sam Presti was still in charge, the Suns wanted to dump Kurt Thomas' 8 million contract on them in order to pay less lux tax as a result of that contract. Presti would not even budge on one first round pick being involved...in the end he waited out and the Suns became desperate and agreed to include NOT ONE BUT TWO FIRST ROUND unprotected picks into the salary dump. Now its looking like one of the most ingenius GM trades in recent times. (Seattle did this with the Rashard Lewis trade exception). Now given all that, and we're talking about exactly the same GM Sam Presti, I'd expect him to at least demand one first round pick if not someone like Jose Juan Barea to be included in the deal, and given Dallas can't trade any picks until 2012, I guess it has to be a young cheap prospect to be included. Other than Barea who else? Maybe Bass? Bass S&T 3 million and Stackhouse to OKC Marion to DAL for 8 million Toronto gets a huge trade exception maybe a couple of second round picks chucked in there as well.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ oops forgot to include banks in that deal to Dallass Banks + Marion to DAL Barea and Stackhouse to OKC TE to TOR sounds likely? I think its got a legit shot as Dallas wouldn't mind losing Barea all that much given they just signed my fav rookie Beaubois lol
then if it goes that way then I think its gonna take more than just 2 deals. deal 1: marion for stackhouse deal 2: stackhouse and barea to OKC deal 3: banks to dallas with TE but I think OKC probably would prefer to dump Nick Collison's contract with any deal involved. If Cuban is willing to take back Collison's contract then the deal becomes that much more likely. Collison/Banks/Marion to DAL Stackhouse and Dampier to OKC
This deal needs to happen fast too, Toronto's got to get everything sorted out so they can sign Hedo. Don't expect this thing to drag on for a week.
That's why I said "at least in that deal". Are you certain this not two separate deals like smoothie referenced? Do you have a link that details the transaction?
Huh? Toronto aren't really getting greedy. Their plan is simply to renounce the rights of several off-contract players so they can create the room to Sign Turkoglu. IF they do this deal with the Mavs, not only will it have stopped them freeing up some room, it will be adding $2million to their books. So to make it work, they need to ditch some salary on the Mavs. Marcus Banks is the logical option there. $3million in 'cash considerations' doesn't free up any extra cap space for them - just let's them pay Stacks contract. Toronto aren't getting greedy - they're just saying "we're not messing up our signing of Hedo just so you can get Marion". Makes perfect sense to me. If they DON'T S&T Marion, then does he go to Dallas? They could only offer him the vets minimum (or the LLE?). If I'm Toronto, I'm not only saying "you're taking Banks"; I'm getting a pick from them as well. They just won't get Marion otherwise.
Interesting. Earlier today I heard it may take longer than expected and that four teams may be involved.
By Marc Stein ESPN.com Archive It appears that the Dallas Mavericks and Toronto Raptors have successfully recruited the Memphis Grizzlies to help them complete a trade that would eventually route free-agent swingman Shawn Marion to the Mavericks, according to NBA front-office sources. Yet sources told ESPN.com that the deal, while very far along, has not been finalized and was unlikely to be completed before Thursday at the earliest, with the trade potentially including a fourth team in its final form. The Mavericks' interest in a sign-and-trade deal for Marion emerged Tuesday but requires Dallas and Toronto to find at least one more team to facilitate the trade because the Raptors can't waive Stackhouse without incurring an extra $2 million in payroll for next season, which would slice into the cap space they have earmarked to sign prized free agent Hedo Turkoglu away from Orlando. But the Grizzlies' participation would involve Memphis absorbing Stackhouse's $7.25 million contract and buying him out for $2 million before the Aug. 10 deadline in Stackhouse's contract. It's believed that the trade will stipulate that Dallas pays that $2 million to the Grizzlies to cover that expense. It was not immediately clear what kind of contract Marion will receive from the Mavericks if the deal goes through, but the leaguewide consensus is that Dallas is his best and perhaps last remaining option to get a starting salary next season above the $5.9 million mid-level exception. Although Raptors president Bryan Colangelo drafted Marion in Phoenix in 1999 and wants to help the former All-Star if he can, sources say Toronto is only interested in taking back draft considerations and/or cash to avoid getting in the way of its Turkoglu signing. In the midst of negotiations with Marion on a four-year contract believed to be worth $36 million late last week, Toronto managed to change Turkoglu's mind at the 11th hour and convince its No. 1 free-agent target to come to Canada for a five-year deal in excess of $50 million instead of signing with the Portland Trail Blazers. If a fourth team ultimately joins in that would mean that the trade is expanding to involve other players. The main thrust of the deal, though, remains Dallas landing Marion at what would be considered a favorable price and Marion getting a contract that starts slightly higher than the mid-level exception. Dallas is hoping that the combination of Marion and Orlando restricted free agent Marcin Gortat -- along with the re-signing of Jason Kidd -- would greatly improve the depth and flexibility possessed by a team that won 50 games last season and advanced to the second round of the playoffs before losing to Denver. Mavs owner Mark Cuban has said for months that he was prepared to be as aggressive as possible this summer as opposed to waiting for the free-agent bonanza of 2010, when Dallas was initially expected to have substantial cap space. Orlando retains the right to match any offer sheet to Gortat but the Magic are widely expected not to match. Sources say that the Mavericks, meanwhile, are determined to keep Josh Howard even if a trade for Marion can be worked out, with Howard entering the final year of his contract. One potential drawback for Dallas is the fact that Marion would be yet another key member of their core over the age of 30, joining Nowitzki (31), Kidd (36), Jason Terry (31) and Howard (who turns 30 next April). Marion earned $17.8 million last season and was traded for the second straight February when Miami sent him to Toronto in a swap for Jermaine O'Neal. He went from Phoenix to Miami one year earlier in the Shaquille O'Neal trade. The Raptors were intent on re-signing Marion if they couldn't win the Turkoglu sweepstakes, seeing late-season signs of promise in Marion's collaboration alongside Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani. Sources say that the Cleveland Cavaliers, despite their recent pursuits of Trevor Ariza and Ron Artest and a well-chronicled need for a combo forward, are not making a hard push for Marion.
At first I was like "wow they're gonna pay Marion 9 mil a year to come off the bench??" but then i thought about how Marion's going to be catching lob passes from Kidd and think that this is a good move for Dallas. Marion can actually resuscitate his career with Kidd at the point.
