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"Shane doin' Work" Or "Behind the Scene of the Unholy +36"

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Pest_Ctrl, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. Pest_Ctrl

    Pest_Ctrl Member

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    This was first inspired by the Battier +/- thread. I missed the Jazz game because it was blacked out on my LPBB (huge bummer). And I was floored by the +36 that Shane put on there when I checked the boxscore. So thanks to the ever amazing work of R2K, I was able to watch the full game. And with the discussion in the Battier thread deteriorates into the usual Shane supporter v.s. Shane basher, I decided to focus my attention entirely on Shane for the whole game and note down what I am seeing.

    Then today pmac post his great thread on the Chuckwagon. So I was motivated to finish the second half of the game and post it here.

    My general thought:
    1. Shane is truly a master on the timing of the help defense. He would glue to his guy throughout the entire possession, and then at the last second another player is about to take a shot in his general neighborhood, he would magically slide over and put a hand in the shooter's face. He did this many times during this game, and none of those shots went in.

    2. Shane almost never lost track of his man. He was guarding Brewer most of the time this game, and the one play Utah kept running throughout the game was to run Brewer back and forth through a plethora of picks along the baseline to try to break him free under the basket for an easy 2. It never succeeded when Shane was in the game, and at least 2 TOs was forced on the pass inside. And in the few minutes in the 2nd quarter when Shane was on the bench and Ariza was on Brewer, he managed to get an uncontested dunk on that play.

    3. All the little things Shane does that do not show up on the boxscore really, really makes a difference. He kicked the ball twice to stop two entry bounce passes to Boozer who got deep position under the basket. And he deflected at least one pass out of bound that would be a sure fire AK dunk. Morey probably has a stats for this "point erased", and Shane just on these three plays alone probably erased 4-6 points off of the score board. And we know he also does so many things else on the defensive end.

    4. And this doesn't even show up in the summary below, but when a shot is up, Shane almost always immediately try to box out the best rebounder in his vicinity. Sure he does not get a lot of rebounds, but he helps his teammate gets them.

    5. On offense, Shane is far from just camping at the corners waiting for a pass. He runs around, sets picks, drives, cuts to the basket, and in general makes smart decisions. The log below is only a tiny portion of his movements that are directly linked to a score or a shot.

    6. When we return to that +36, it is probably a coincidence that it gets so big, as the Jazz and the Refs went on a few nice little runs at the end of the 1st and the 3rd quarter when he was on the bench. But overall, Shane makes huge impact on defense. Maybe only Hayes can have a similar level of impact on defense.

    7. The sample size of one game is way too small, and if I do the same thing for the next game, Kobe would have made Shane look a lot worse. But most of things I listed are not going to change from game to game, and they will help this team winning games tremendously.

    In summary, the +/- stats is not that reliable of an indicator of performance, but Shane did have a huge impact on this game, even if the boxscore doesn't show much. Shane is still the prototype no stats all-star, that every coach would love to have on his team.

    Game Log
    This is mostly focused on Shane, but Chuck just can't let you ignore him. ;)
    11:45 Brewer gets the ball on the left just inside the 3pt line, Okur sets a pick and Shane is caught out of position. Brewer drives inside and misses the point blank dunk (hahaha). Williams gets the rebound, and Hayes comes to the rescue and steals the ball. Not a great defensive possession for Shane.

    11:13 Hayes keeps owning. Boozer Turnover : Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal:Hayes (2 ST)

    10:26 Shane drives baseline and lost the ball out of bound. Bad play.

    10:18 Shane knocks the ball out of Brewer’s hand and out of bound.

    10:13 Shane fouls Brewer on a jump shot. Very uncharacteristic mistake by Shane.

    09:51 Utah semi fast break, Shane back into the paint. AK was left open on the right baseline, Shane closes out to him and AK misses the mildly contested shot.

    09:44 Brooks Jump Shot: Made (7 PTS)
    This just shows how fast is our new offense, 7 seconds or less. :D

    09:30 Brewer and Boozer give and go on the left baseline, Shane seals off Brewer perfectly behind the basket, and forces Brewer to pass the ball out to Okur, who travels.

    09:17 Shane drives left from right side 3pt line to the middle and spins right, and misses an awkward shot. Not smart.

    08:49 Hayes keeps owning. Hayes Layup Shot: Made

    08:03 Welcome aboard the Chuckwagon, non-stop service to pwnage. Hayes offensive rebound and Jump Shot: Made

    07:42 Boozer drives inside from the ft line. Shane comes over to double and blocks the shot. Unfortunately Hayes is called for a Foul .

    07:36 Hayes out with 2 fouls, but Landry keeps up the ownage. Landry Running Slam Dunk Shot: Made (2 PTS). Another 7 second or less.

    07:23 Okur posts up Scola on the right block and drives to the middle. Shane comes over to double and Okur misses the layup

    06:38 Shane drives left from the right baseline which makes the Utah defense collapse into the paint, then passes the ball to Brooks who then passes to Ariza for a wide open 3pter. Ariza 3pt Shot: Made (3 PTS)

    06:05 Rockets semi fast break and Shane gets the ball at the top of the 3pt line. Shane drives inside and misses a floater from the ft line. Should have shot that 3.

    05:51 Brewer backdoor cut from left baseline. Shane was able to stay close to him and caused a turnover as Brewer can’t handle the pass from Boozer

    05:18 Okur gets the ball at the ft line, and is trapped by 3 rockets including Shane. Misses the Jump Shot.

    05:03 Shane camps in the right corner and makes the 3pt Shot.

    04:15 Battier gets the rebound of a missed Williams shot and passes to Ariza who nails a 3. Only took 5 seconds.

    03:49 Brewer gets the ball a step inside the 3pt line and drives to the basket. Shane manages to stay in front of him and strips the ball out of bound as he was going for the layup. Shane got away with a foul here.

    03:49 Shane checks out of the game. Score [Hou 22 Utah 15], Shane with a +7.

    Williams immediately scores 4 points on Lowry. And then Kirilenko scores 4 points on fts and a layup.

    01:44 Lowry left Price (who is in the game for Brewer) to soft double Boozer, who kicked the ball back to Price for a 3 pointer. Utah now leads 26-24.

    00:39 Terrible call on Scola of an offensive foul.

    End of 1st Quarter Utah leads 28-26. Without Shane the team gets a -9. Not entirely because of Shane, but the defense got sloppy, and the offense becomes stagnant.

    Start of 2nd Quarter Shane back in the game.

    11:31 Shane dribbles left along the 3pt line and passes the ball to Budinger, who misses the shot

    11:21 Utah fast break, Brewer tries to pass across the paint to Price, Budinger deflects the pass and Shane picks up the ball and is fouled by Price from behind.

    11:01 Battier misses a 3pt shot from the left corner, but tips the rebound to Budinger for a fresh 24.

    10:38 Brewer beats Shane down the court and nobody picks him up as he drives straight to the basket for an easy 2. Bad defense by the whole team here.

    10:08 Utah fast break. Shane seals off Brewer on the left block, but he passes to Matthews on the other side of the basket wide open and makes a layup

    09:25 Brewer runs back and forth along the baseline and through a series of picks. Shane does a good job staying on him and does not allow a pass. Utah was forced to take a shot to beat the buzzer and missed.

    09:16 Shane gets the ball at the top of the arc in transition and nails the 3 ball

    09:02 Maynor drives inside the ft line and pull up. He paused half a second before shooting and Shane closes in on him from behind and contested the shot. Maynor missed the shot badly.

    06:39 Chase draws 2 fts 5 seconds after a MADE basket by Utah. This is starting to look like that Suns team.

    06:22 Battier Substitution replaced by Ariza. Score Hou 39:40 Utah. Battier +8.

    05:44 Williams cuts baseline and gets wide open under the basket. Chuck rolls over just in time to contest the shot and Williams misses.

    02:29 Brewer cuts baseline again. Ariza left Brewer open on the backdoor cut and he got an easy dunk. They ran this play multiple times when Shane was on the court, and none of them succeeded.

    02:18 Hayes pure ownage, 2+1 (misses the ft though :().

    End of 2nd Quarter Hou 54-57

    Start of 3rd Quarter

    11:43 Battier cuts to the basket from the left and makes a layup shot off a Scola pass (Brewer goaltend).

    11:26 Boozer posts up on the right block and turns middle for a fade away jump shot. Battier leaves his man and comes over to contest the shot just as Boozer was about to shoot, and forces an airball.

    10:44 Brewer makes a jump shot over battier with a hand in the face from just inside the 3pt land. No complaint here.

    10:12 Battier cuts to the basket and gets wide open 3 feet under the basket, but Hayes throws the ball too low and the lob pass was intercepted.

    09:05 Boozer gets position deep in the paint, and Battier kicks the entry pass from Brewer out of bound. It would have been an easy layup had Boozer get the ball.

    08:36 Shane gets the ball at the right 3pt line, fakes a shot and drives. He draws Boozer away from Scola and passes to Scola for an 18 foot jump shot made.

    08:22 Battier kicks the entry pass to a deep position Boozer again.

    08:10 Another fast break in 4 seconds, Ariza 2+1

    07:54 Brewer again running around baseline, the pass was deflected out of bound by Battier.

    07:48 Williams drives and Battier comes over to help. Williams passes the ball to Brewer wide open 3pt Shot and missed. The help defense was not able to rotate to Brewer.

    06:55 Ariza drives and sets up Battier for a wide open corner 3pt Shot but missed.

    06:31 Brewer again moves along baseline without ball but Shane stayed with him. He finally gets the ball just inside the 3pt line by the right base line with shot clock winding down. He drives inside, and Brooks slides over and draws a charge.

    05:55 Boozer missed a jump shot, Scola gets the rebound but throws a bad pass to Shane. Shane managed to tip the ball back to Scola falling down on the floor with Okur all over him.

    05:11 Another 4 second fast break with Scola 2+1.

    04:37 Shane drives from the left 3pt line and passes to Brooks for a wide open 3pt Shot that missed

    04:29 Williams pump fakes at the ft line and draws a foul from Battier

    03:17 Battier Substitution replaced by Lowry. Score: Hou 74:66 Utah. Shane now +17

    02:25 Great defense by Hayes but was called for a foul

    End of 3rd Quarter, Hou 79-76 Utah. A LOT of crap calls allowed Utah to go on a mini-run.

    Start of 4th Quarter
    Battier starts the quarter guarding Williams.

    11:22 Battier misses an open baseline jump shot.

    11:12 In transition Battier is switched on Matthews, and he left him open for a baseline 3pt Shot that missed, but Okur got the rebound and scored. Don’t know why Shane left him wide open to double Millsap in the post.

    10:36 Williams drives left from top of the arc, and his shot is blocked by Battier out of bound with 5 on the shot clock.

    10:33 Shane stays with Williams on the inbound pass and he drives into Lowry and picks up an offensive foul.

    10:20 Budinger time starts.

    09:03 Brewer turns the ball over and Shane picks up the loose ball.

    08:22 Kirilenko runs baseline from left corner to right corner through several picks. Battier lost him over the picks, and he makes the 2pt jump shot.

    07:51 A phantom call on Battier as he is guarding Kirilenko.

    07:43 Millsap sets a pick for Kirilenko along the baseline as he cuts to the basket for an easy layup, but Shane managed to catch up and deflects the entry pass out of bounds with 7 seconds on the shot clock.

    07:16 Battier dribbles along the 3pt line and passes to Budinger for a 3. This one is just CBud on fire.

    06:58 Price gets the rebound off a Utah miss, but is cornered by Shane behind the basket, and turns the ball over out of bounds.

    05:38 Battier sets up at the top of the arc and nails a 3 with an outlet pass from Landry.

    05:20 Battier is now on Okur (!). Williams drives baseline and Battier switches over to help, and gets the rebound off the miss

    03:44 Utah fast break off a Hayes turn over, and Shane calmly draws a charge from Millsap which also fouls him out of the game.

    02:56 Utah fast break off an Ariza turn over. Shane gets back in time to stop the ball, but Brewer was fouled (possibly should’ve been a charge) by Lowry.

    02:16 Shane runs baseline and gets a fade away jumper as the shot clock goes off.

    01:43 Brooks drives and passes to Shane, then he camps in the corner as Shane returns the ball to him with a behind the back pass and nails the 3pt Shot

    01:29 Battier Substitution replaced by Taylor. Hou 111:90 Utah, Shane Battier with +36.

    P.S. Morey probably have all of these information at his fingertips. How awesome would that be.
     
    5 people like this.
  2. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    Thats quite a post.
     
  3. trugoy

    trugoy Member

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    No doubt shane is good, I wonder how good he is, an interesting thought experiment is to replace shane with tmac and see which team would have a better record for a whole season. I have a feeling it would be close.
     
  4. That Boi Oz

    That Boi Oz Member

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    Great read!! I'll be paying more attention to Shane tonight vs the Thunder.
     
  5. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I really like these types of threads. Thanks.
     
  6. RV6

    RV6 Member

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    this is gonna get ugly very quickly..
     
  7. djimi

    djimi Member

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    wow how long did it take u to do this? do u keep a log book on Rockets games u watch all the time? if u do, i salute u, true Rockets fan :)
     
  8. leebigez

    leebigez Member

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    So I guess we're gonna ride that game for the whole year? Maybe one day we can all gather and watch some coaches tape in general and take notes to compare. I would really like to see what some people see. I'm not talking of the +36 or just shane either, just the game as a whole.
     
  9. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    That would be a great idea.
     
  10. Pest_Ctrl

    Pest_Ctrl Member

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    I said in my post that the sample size of one game is way too small. And I tried to look for things that should be consistent from game to game, although there are still many things that would change on a per game basis. Battier was guarding Brewer, and he was able to go double team others a lot more than if he was guarding Kobe. But overall I think that the general observation I made here are mostly consistent from game to game.

    In the other Battier thread, it basically turns to everyone repeating everything they have said and run in circles. That's not doing anything for both sides. So I decided to make this thread that might add something to the discussion.

    I tried to focus most of my attention to Shane for this whole game, and I was actually surprised by the amount of little things that I haven't notices before when I was just watching a game. You really need to zoom in onto one or a couple of guys to see a lot of the minor details of a play. I have never seen a coach tape before, and I assume that it will break down these details very nicely. It would be great if we could get some coach tapes and see what we can see.
     
  11. RV6

    RV6 Member

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    Just let it be what it is, a critical look at one game. It's pointless to keep going against any pro-shane post or thread as long as he's a rocket. What happens is the pro-shane side is afraid to say anything negative even when it does happen so they don't fuel your fire. On the other side, you guys can't ever say anything positive about shane without a "but" or taking a cheap shot at him because y'all fear it gives our argument credibility. It get's really old on both ends of the argument.

    If you can't see what others see then why not just accept that and let it go or seek an answer outside this board, ask a reputable and knowledgable coach or even someone within the rockets organization if you have a way to. This is a rockets board afterall, anytime you're anti any player you're likely to be in the minority and the chances of making them change sides are very low, regardless of whether you're right or not.
     
  12. Pest_Ctrl

    Pest_Ctrl Member

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    From Morey's twitter about the Lakers game:

    Good: effort!,off.reb.,shot defense-85% contested(SB 100%!),Cholandry,41 trans.pts to LAL 22; Need imprvmnt: TOs,def reb.,fouling,ball mvmnt

    I guess that means Shane contested 100% of the shot his man (Kobe) takes. It would have been much easier to put that into context if we know what's an average player's contest rate.
     
  13. redao

    redao Member

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    But Kobe still shot 50%. Mr. Almost needs to learn a lot from Fisher.
     
  14. Pest_Ctrl

    Pest_Ctrl Member

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    That's just because Kobe is Kobe. I bet you if you put anyone else on him it wouldn't matter for Kobe.

    And that's also because Fisher was Fisher, who got away with handchecking Brooks the entire OT. If Shane learned anything from him, he would have fouled out within 5 minutes.
     

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