I have been skimming the threads here for a while and thought some things need to be said, similar to BimaThug's explanation of the cap situation some time ago. 1) Scola cannot be used in a trade for Bosh! He is a free agent and the only way he is going to Toronto is if he agrees to a sign-and-trade! The likelihood of that is ridiculously low. Couple that with Scola's low-value for a team looking to rebuild (he is relatively old and will yield a pretty good contract), and him going there is not happening. So those of you clamoring over losing the Argentinian Slayer need to know what the deal is before you post. 2) The most reasonable trade package would include both Battier and Jeffries, plus Hill, this year's pick, Budinger and something else. This brings me to another point: a - Anyone who thinks Budinger is an asset that can't be traded is outright foolish. He is a slasher / catch-and-shoot off screens guy. We get the same thing out of any Von Wafer type player - they don't cost much because they typically aren't great defensive players, and because they're usually so one-dimensional that they are relegated to bench status. Budinger is this type of guy - he could start on a bad team or be a bench player on a championship caliber team. The facts are the facts, now is the time when we have to face them. b - Anyone who thinks Hill is an asset that can't be traded is outright foolish. Be real, people - Yao isn't going anywhere. The implication of that is that, if we're in it to win it [all], the time is now. Waiting on players like Hill for another 1-3 years to develop is not what championship teams do - they rely on tested vets who complement each other's skills sets. Hill can be very good, but if we're getting back already-good talent, then we're fine. 3) Anyone who thinks we shouldn't bother with Bosh if presented with the opportunity to acquire him needs to learn a thing or two about basketball. a - Some of you complain about his defense, but NBA basketball is about team defense and rotations, not one-on-one domination. In the last decade, the DPOY winner has only gone on to win it all that season ONCE (Kevin Garnett). He would add length to the team, and that is something that wins now: frontcourt length. We would still need another long backup C (my personal wish would be for Pryzbilla), but our frontcourt would be incredible. But the point here is that Bosh can be taught to play good team defense, as could Brooks and Martin, and that's all hinged on stuff like coaching staff and player IQ on the court. b - Some of you complain about his lack of winning, but NBA basketball is about team play, and you cannot tell me (or anyone) that he has ever played on a more-than-capable team. This is just a dumb argument. c - Some of you complain about how he is not worth a max contract, but I'm pretty sure none of you are Les Alexander, and subsequently shouldn't worry about how much he (or anyone) is getting paid. The only two ways I can see contract size affecting fans is cap flexibility (but he will always be a trade chip if need be) or ticket cost (but real fans don't genuinely care that much about ticket cost, plus there are always secondary ticket sellers who practically give the seats away).
you have some good points. but as far as him deserving a max contract i disagree. i dont care if its my money. if the rockets could have 8 max contracts like the yankees that would be great. but that is not how the nba works (and one of the reasons baseball sucks) so having 2 max players the last several years that didnt work out should show you its very important who you give those out to. ex: rashard lewis etc. etc. etc.
I agree with most all your points. The only thing I'd like to add which is my only concern with Bosh, he is not a game winning player that I truly believe is all this team needs (along with a healthy Yao). By that I mean someone who at the end of the game you know, fans know, the other team know, etc who is taking the shot. I don't believe Brooks is there (he might be one day maybe even next year, but from what I saw I wasn't super confident with his end game), Yao is a center with no major mobility or be able to end a game and requires someone to get him the ball at the right place, he is no Hakeem. From what I have seen of Bosh he is not some great game ender and I don't expect many big men to take those final shots. Really the should be "MAN" is Kevin Martin. Guy is so good at FTs, but he seems to disappear late in the game. I know this is a longshot and will probably never happen but I'd much prefer someone like Wade for all these reasons even if it costs us Kmart, Hill, Bud, and a few other picks/players. I just don't see how Bosh really takes us over the top, we have great 3 quarter team, we really need a late game closer. These are obviously hard as f to find, but Rockets really need to be focused on finding that. I'd love to see Bosh in a Rockets uniform, but man these Rockets since Tmac became Shemac, Rockets have really not had a go to 4th quarter player and that is what caused the Rockets soooo many heartbreaking losses.
It is hilarious to me how people can make definitive quotes about players IN THEIR ROOKIE SEASONS! Budinger has a ton of potential if you can't see that your foolish!
First, it's "you're," not 'your.' Second, I'm not saying he's not full of potential, but like I said about Hill, championship teams are such because of tested vets, not 'potential.' Put things in perspective.
So he can be traded in a sign-and-trade. Thanks for clearing that up. Why is it foolish to not want to mortgage your future for an unsteady present? Yao isn't going anywhere.. this season. But his contract is up after the year and we still have no idea if he'll ever be the same player. Trading a young up-and-comer might be the foolish thing to do right now since Jordan Hill could be what we need should Yao never return to full strength. I'm not saying I agree with that statement -- but it's certainly a valid argument and not outright foolish. Agree with all points except C -- fans have every right to care about the contracts our team makes. We aren't Les Alexander, but we do care about the way our team is being built. I have no problems with Bosh making the max -- but if DD every wins the lotto and appoints himself GM, I will have an issue with Budinger taking up 25% of my team's cap. All paying fans - real and fake - care about the price on the ticket.
You said he can't be used, but then he can? You're shutting down the idea that's possible because you think Scola won't go for it, but why wouldnt he? Think about it, he's not selfish or greedy. He's always said he just want to play and there's always somewhere in the world to play. He'll play anywhere, in other words, where he's wanted/given a chance. I dont think it's that unlikely he'd agree to a trade. Although i agree he can be traded, your assessment is off. He's not the typical one dimensional shooter. Steve novak is that guy. He literally couldnt do anything, but shoot. A guy who can shoot, run the floor, rebound, drive off the dribble to the rim and finish decently is not one dimensional. Even wafer could do 3 out of those 4. They may only excel on one side of the ball, but they can do more than one thing offensively.
a. All GOOD teams have a group (2-3) of developmental players if they are smart. b. I would also like Pryz to come here. c. Nobody seems to consider that before Yao went out Scola was not a 19-9 player. Scola did not all-of-a-sudden get great. The game goes through Yao and wouldn't favor Bosch in my opinion. What we need is Scola and a defensive b/u and by-golly we already have them. Scola and Hill were pretty effective last and Hill should be even better this year.
I don't have a problem with Kevin not taking over game. He's not someone that you can give him the ball and dominate like Kobe. He play according to what the defense give him and he took efficient open shots. If you look at players like Lebron...EVEN him did not know how to take over game. In the Playoffs, did you see him pass the ball and then stand at a corner asking his teammates to pass the ball around to someone else while his team was behind and in need of doing something?? That was ridiculous. If it's Kobe..he would demand to have the ball. There are only a few players have the desire to take over games. If it's not in your blood...you just ain't got it. It's not in Lebron blood...it's not in Kevin Garnett blood. These players like to pass the ball around and only take open efficient shots based on what the defense give them.
Not sure why you think the likelihood of Scola agreeing to a trade is "ridiculously low." I don't agree with that statement at all. I do agree that the Rockets need to be in a "win now" mentality. They're close to where they need to be talent-wise. Fortunately, I think management realizes this and does intend to make a run this season. Building for the future is of secondary concern. But I do think players like Budinger and certainly Hill could play a valuable role on a championship team this coming season. They both have a year under their belts and could make a jump in production and be important pieces of the puzzle. That said, if they help the team acquire a real difference-maker like Bosh who could take the team to the next level this season, that would be great.
LOL some of your assertions are way off as other posters have already commented: 1. You contradict yourself. Scola CAN be traded if he consented to it. 2-A. C-Bud is more than a slasher and catch-and-shoot guy. He can create offense by himself, and he can pass really well so combined with his shot and slashing abilities he can create for others too. As far as the offensive side of the ball goes, he can pretty much do everything you want. Not a 1-dimensional player at all. 2-B. We've been building around Yao Ming for the half decade now. How has that worked out? Did it give you any indication that going all in now with him will result in a ring? Also your whole "We swim with Yao, we'll sink with Yao" theory is false, because his contract will expire a year from now. Yao doesn't recover from his surgery properly and we let him expire, simple as that. OTH we mortgage everything for Bosh and Yao doesn't recover properly and where do we end up? Bosh, Brooks and nothing else. Yeah, that's a solid plan. 3. It seem YOU are the one who needs to know more about basketball. 3a. Defense doesn't matter? LOL whatever happened to defense wins championships? Sure it's rare that the DPOY wins the ring, however what makes you sure the DPOY is the best defensive player of the year? Camby won it a number of times, and he's a lousy defender. Also the Spurs featured both one of the best wing defenders in Bowen and the one of the best interior defenders in Duncan. How many rings did they win? 3b. Is a fair point, and is the only point you have which isn't wrong. 3c. NBA has this thing called the "salary cap". The salary cap limits the amount of funds you can pay players. If the cap didn't exist since I'm not Les Alexander, I couldn't care less if he paid everyone a max contract. However because of the cap I certainly care if he pays somone 100 million per year.
Getting Bosh at the cost of our assets will put us right back into the two-star mold with Tmac and Yao Ming. His reasonable proposal for Bosh has us giving up Battier, Hill, C-Bud and the draft pick. That leaves us just the MLE for the backup center. Yao goes down, and we'll have the backup center, Bosh, Brooks, KM and Ariza as the core of our team. That sounds like a contender to you? What solid help can we get when we're at the tax line?
Luis Scola would also be a BYC player, if he is resigned by the Rockets. He would only count for $3.375 mil or 50% whichever is higher for salary matching purposes in trade. If Luis signed a contract starting at $7 mil, it would only count for $3.5 mil. Raptors would be taking back about $17 mil in salary to make it work, instead of $13.5 mil.
First of all, great post. But to clear up point 1. The reason why Scola is incredibly unlikely to be traded for Bosh is because he's a BYC. Which means that he can only count ~$5 mil when matching salaries. But he'll likely be making much more than that. Hence, if Toronto wants him, they'll have a take back a few million more in deadweight contracts in order to make it work. It's an obscure CBA rule, but it's very annoying if you want to trade someone like Scola. Also, while I agree with your points, you made the wrong argument by making it seem like we'd give up "a lot" for Bosh. When we're not in any scenario. It's simply a matter of replacement value of each player. Can Budinger be a star? Maybe, maybe not. But how easily can we replace him as a player? Fairly easily. Morey has found wing players in Artest, Wafer, Ariza, Martin, and Budinger over the years. Rarity has its value. All-star/Superstar with size are almost never obtainable without high lottery pick. Swingmen are obtainable if you scout well or through trades.
Before anyone making any speculation about Yao Ming still being the main focal point of this team, everyone should at least wait until he steps onto the court first. Most of you guys kept saying with Yao Ming, the Rockets are in a win now situation but none of us still don't know the status of Yao Ming yet. All we know about him is that he is on the right track to recovery but that does not mean he would just come back and picked up where he left off. There are still lots of work left to be done. Right now, Yao Ming is just breaching the tip of the iceberg in his recovery. He is older now and taking over a year off trying to recover and not really getting as much exercise, it is very hard to play at the same intensity level. It will take months and lots of playing time on the court just for Yao to maybe get back into his old rhythm but his minutes will be limited just to prevent another major injury to occur. So by limiting his minutes, it will take much longer for Yao to even come close to where he left off. So basically the next season may be a season for Yao to find his game and rhythm back. So when the next season is over, Yao will finally have the whole entire summer to work out and train hard to get back into the all star form. But by then, he will be older and his body will probably wear and tear even more. Right now, Yao Ming is just a big if. We cannot count on him to deliver like we used to. Until we see him play again, we cannot make any assumption on whether he will be the same all star center for Houston. Getting Chris Bosh and keeping Scola will help minimize our dependency on Yao Ming. That way, if Yao recovery isn't successful and he isn't close to being the same player he used to be, the Rockets have already have a good big man that can fill in Yao's numbers but better. Bosh ideally isn't a true center but with the style play of Houston, Bosh will do fine playing as a Center. Having Bosh and Scola play side by side is a front court nightmare to every single team in the NBA. Along with the back court of Kevin and Brooks, the Rockets have enough fire power to compete with every team in the NBA. Bosh brings that star power to go along with the depth of the Rockets and a talented Luis Scola, the Rockets will be competing for the top spot in the west. But if Yao manage to stay healthy and get back into his former self, its a big plus for Houston. But if he doesn't, it wouldn't hurt the team as badly as it did last season. So basically, if the Rockets don't land a Bosh and stick with the same team with the hopes of Yao returning back healthy and strong, it is a huge risk and the odds stack against them. I know Morey and Les both know how risky it is to continue to rely on Yao Ming so hopefully they can find a way to make a move where the Rockets no longer have to rely on Yao as much as they used to in the years past.
Yao goes down.... we're basically the same team we were this year. And we weren't a contender this year either. So your point is moot. The point is, Bosh makes our team better. If you are unwilling to make a deal where you don't give up any starters... what deal do you think you are going to make? I personally think Bosh's acquisition is hopeful thinking, but you have people acting like it would be a mistake to get him. I think that's just lunacy. Bosh, Brooks, Ariza, Martin, Lowry, and probably Scola. I thought the hypothetical trade was Battier, Jeffries, Hill, Buddinger and some picks... maybe ONE more rotation player. Again, people are playing the "what if Yao can't make a comeback" card. If we don't make a move and Yao flops this season, we're lucky to be a 50 win team. If we trade for Bosh, and Yao doesn't pan out, now we have a team to build around Bosh. What's wrong with that? Bosh coaxed 40 wins out of a crappy Raptors team with a crappy coach. Who's the second best player on that Raptors team? And I think there is a point to be made about the "we can't wait 5 seasons to build a team" idea. Scola and Yao are getting up there in age. The rest of the team is relatively young. No reason to keep developing young guys when you can trade them for a guy that is still relatively young but is a great player NOW. Why waste Yao's good years waiting for our young guys to get good?
