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Sent this message to a few buddies regarding the Kings trade. People in Sacramento actually like th

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by OlajuwonFan81, Jul 7, 2015.

  1. OlajuwonFan81

    OlajuwonFan81 Member

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    Let me first preface this by saying that all trades involve risk so I am not implying that this trade is guaranteed to backfire against the Kings. The point of any trade in my opinion should be based upon whether it takes you one step closer to becoming a championship caliber team. The Kings are currently one of the worst teams in the NBA via their abysmal record. In general the quickest way to acquire top tier talent when you are a bad team is through the draft. Signing mid tier role players to big contracts when you are a bad team isn’t a prudent approach. I heard some moans and groans from some of you regarding the draft and how players tend to be busts. There’s no denying that there’s some truth to that statement; most draft picks are busts. However, lets take a look at the flip side and recognize the many great players that have been drafted in a very small time frame. In all of these instances the draft picks have completely turned around the franchise with the exception of the Kings. Players take a few years to develop so I’ve selected the drafts from 2009-2012. All of these teams have made the playoffs since drafting these studs with the exception of the Kings.

    1. Warriors-Curry, Thompson
    2. Pelicans-Anthony Davis
    3. Kings-Demarcus Cousins
    4. Wizards-John Wall
    5. Cleveland-Kyrie Irving
    6. Spurs- Kawahi Leanard
    7. Blazers-Diamian Lilliard
    8. Clippers-Blake Griffin
    9. James Harden although traded by idiotic Sam Presti.

    These are 9 franchises that benefited greatly from the NBA Draft. Some are a direct reflection as to why those respective cities have an NBA Championship banner in the rafters such as Oakland and San Antonio.

    So please, enough with the rhetoric about how drafts are risky. This is a given but the potential upside is clearly worth the risk. Why do you think every GM in the league covets 1st round draft picks?

    Now lets discuss the actual trade. The Kings essentially traded 2 role players that were overpaid in Landry and Thompson; which on the surface seems like a great move. The problem is that you are impacting 4 of your 1st round picks to achieve this. Last year’s top 10 pick, 2 pick swaps and a future 1st rounder. If you don’t think this is a big deal, then I’m not sure you’ve been paying attention to the NBA. The Warriors and Thunder draft well they win. The Kings draft like idiots, they lose. It’s as simple as that.

    The pick swaps shouldn’t be taken lightly. The 76ers play in the EAST where some years even 30-35 wins will get you into the playoffs. On the flip side the Kings play in the West where you literally have to win 50 games just to make the 8th seed. Who knows what will happen in the future. You don’t think it is impossible for the 76ers to be the 8th seed in the East and the Kings still around 11-13 in the West? That would literally be moving up about 10 spots from 15 to 5. If you wanted to move up those 10 spots during a live draft you would have to give up an arm and a leg. I’m telling you this sort of scenario is definitely plausible. It is a high-risk move that in my eyes is far too risky considering the return on investment.

    Lets also consider the fact that there are other ways of clearing cap space; something called a stretch provision. Essentially it allows you to waive a player but spread out the impact of his salary against the salary cap. Here is a clear example of this. "if a team has an underperforming player with one season remaining at $12 million, the team can waive him and stretch his salary across three seasons at $4 million per season." In this example the salary would only count for 4 million against the cap this season instead of 12 million. This would allow a team to go out and sign a player for that remaining 8 million that is saved via the provision. Considering the salary cap will move up by about 30-40 million this would be the ideal situation to use the stretch provision on a player like Landry and/or Thompson.

    Essentially the Kings could have still signed Rondo and Belleneli without giving up anything if they used the stretch provision. Let me repeat, essentially they could have signed Rondo and Belleneli without impacting any of the Kings future 1st round draft picks.

    In reality the Kings traded away 2 role players and impacted 4 1st round picks for Koufos. You don’t have to be an NBA nerd to realize that it is a highly questionable trade. There is a reason why 99% of the national pundits were laughing when they saw the details of the trade.

    The owner and Vlade are trying to do everything they can to make this team more competitive prior to moving into the new building. The fans are hungry for a competitive team so they applaud the move because they see an attempt to make the team better, not paying any attention to the potential consequences down the road. In my eyes this is much more of a business decision to excite the fan base than a shrewd NBA trade. In the end, did Vlade even know that the stretch provision exists? For a fan base to even have to ponder a question like that is beyond disappointing, it’s downright scary.
     
  2. rocketsballin

    rocketsballin Member

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    wow, i didnt know they traded away two extra potential first rounders! i didnt even know who stauskas was, thought he was a scrub lol. and if they're serious about being competitive next season their top 10 protected pick is gone. yikes, and the team they have right now is only semi-competitive.
     
  3. Oracle

    Oracle Member

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    Well, you can look at it the other way around. If they are winning, they don't need a mid 1st rounder. If the Rondo trade backfires, then they have the pick. Secondly, only Kawhi Leonard of that list was a mid 1st rounder (Klay Thompson was 11th pick), so the possibilities to get a game changer as a mid 1st rounder are extremely slim. Kyrie Irving didn't change the Cavs success, it took importing LBJ and Kevin Love to finalize that. The Kings had 3 PFs that did not fit the system (certainly not that of George Karl) in Thompson, Landry and Williams and they needed to replace them. So clearly they now have better front court when Karl wants to play Gay as a 4. On top of the that they have Koufos and they drafted Willie Cauley-Stein. WCS has the potential to be a real game changer. Remember, Larry Bird called him a 100 mil player. Could be a bust as well, but I personally believe that he will be successful.

    Collison, who started well last season, but was injured, is still there. If Rondo works well, the Kings have a great backup PG. Ben MacLemore is steadily improving. He shoots his 3-pointers better and is explosive going to the rim. His defense is also very good lately. Belinelli is a very good shooter coming via Chicago and San Antonio and will certainly be an upgrade from Stauskas who at this stage is not living up to his 8th pick status. Casspi has proven to be an excellent backup to Gay. They really wanted him back.

    So, it doesn't look that bad at all concerning the roster. If they can create some good team chemistry, they'll be fighting for the playoff spot.
     
  4. malakas

    malakas Member

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    The trade was horrendous. However ...I see no point in arguing with Kings fans about this. They have been humiliated and their team is the joke of the league and everywhere you look writers/fans/media make fun of them. I don't think they deserve even more grief for that.
    Let them be.
     
  5. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Pretty serious thought about post about the Kings... Haha. I agree with OP... Disagree with Oracle.

    That roster is crap. Big adds are Rondo and Koufas?
    I mean you are seriously betting on upside/best case scenarios there.

    The one saving grace is that they only signed Rondo for a year. Well I guess also having Karl as a coach. Deep playoff runs are not in his future but he's probably still capable of coaching a style that might make the team win more than they otherwise should.

    Otherwise it's oretty crappy. When you consider Portland is at least well coached and has some talent remaining - likely not playoffs but not a bottom of be West team... When you add in the Thunder... When you consider the Suns are a ? But you could say improved. When you consider the Jazz are on the up and would be my sleeper team.... At best I see the Kings as ever so slightly improved off last year.

    I still contend they'd have been best off creating a bidding war for Cousins, flipping for as many assets as possible. And then certainly not doing the Philly trade.
     
  6. Oracle

    Oracle Member

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    I have no problem with that. However, I'm a big WCS fan and I believe he can become another DMC, only much more athletic. The Kings starting lineup (most likely) is Rondo, McLemore, Gay, Cauley-Stein and Cousins. That certainly is not a bad starting lineup! The second unit would be Collison, Belinelli, Casspi, Moreland and Koufos, which is pretty strong as well. The Kings problems last season were Cousins meningitis and the coach changes. The team was not weak and it is probably stronger (more balanced) now. Basically it is all about Rondo, but the team can play without Rondo as well. Moreover, George Karl is in the habit to get to the playoffs (you can look up his resume) and probably isn't planning to stop now.
     
  7. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Yeah, I'm not sold on WCS. Would be worried about his foot. Don't like the fit with DMC especially offensively. Apparently he can guard 5 positions... which would be great, but we'll see. He's a rookie either way, so evne if he turns out great, it's a year or two away.

    Definitely if Gay plays within himself, Rondo plays within himself, and Collison comes back healthy and strong, there's talent there.

    Just seems like a lot of ifs
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. malakas

    malakas Member

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    WCS the new Cousins? Wow talk about high expectations
    Looks to me more like a defensive role player. Not high on him at all. Let's see how he fares in the next months though. Will he have surgery?
     
  9. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Well odds are those swaps will never be used because the Kings are better the the 76'ers right now. So then the trade become Stauskas and a protected 2018 1st?

    That's not too much to give up to dump 26+ million over the next 2 season, Stauskas had a pretty awful rookie season, and how valuable is a protected first that's 3 years away? Kings might even have a respectable team by then.
     
  10. hlcc

    hlcc Member

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    Or the team might implode and becomes absolutely awful. Just look at the Lakers trade for Nash, with Kobe + Nash + Dwight they probably thought whatever pick they conveyed to the Suns will be a very late 1st round pick, but look at it now it'll mostly end up as a 4-7th pick this year.

    At least the Lakers did that trade trading away what was widely viewed as a very late pick for a player that most people still considered as pretty good at that time. The Kings made this trade to clear cap space when none of their top 3 FA choices even made a commitment to them yet.

    Also the 2 years of swaps are not worthless, as long as the Kings will end up as a lottery team for the next several years (which seems very likely) there's a chance they can end up with the #1 pick which will than end up in Philly's hands kinda like the Baron Davis trade which netted the Cavs Kyrie Irving.
     
  11. Oracle

    Oracle Member

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    Doesn't seem that draft has done much to the Kings. Their best lottery draft pick in recent years has been Cousins followed by Tyreke Evans, but he was not an easy fit to the team and didn't bring much back in the trade. McLemore gives signs that he may grow to a very good player and WCS is something to be seen. How about the other lottery pics: Fredette, Robinson, Stauskas etc. All gone by now with nothing in return. The only great Kings draft pick (I Thomas) was #60 and he is gone as well. Casspi, the #23 pick was converted to JJ Hickson. Hickson was waived within a few months and now they have Casspi back and they are happy with him.

    What I'm trying to say is that the Kings are probably not great believers in draft. Not only do their pics tend to bust, but the ones that are good, are lost without any real reward in trades. The players that they have brought in around Cousins (Gay, Collison, Casspi, Belinelli, Koufos etc.) seem to be slowly working for the Kings. Rondo is the big question mark.
     
  12. dharocks

    dharocks Member

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    To reiterate what OP said:

    THEY COULD HAVE JUST USED THE STRETCH PROVISION.

    Seriously we're defending them throwing away draft picks because they always **** up the draft?? That's what it's come to if you're defending the Kings?

    As for their fans liking the trade, I remember there were actually Kings fans who were happy about the Jimmer/Salmons deal in 2011. So take it with a grain of salt I guess.
     

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