A Florida Circuit Court judge has ruled that Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris did not abuse her power in refusing to certify the hand recount tallies. They can keep counting til the cows come home, but they're not going to count. That's pretty funny. ------------------ People like to slam Bush's education record, but at least Texans know how to punch holes.
And that's coming from a democratic judge that was appointed by Clinton. So, all this talk about partisanship on the part of the demos is moot. Okay, it's going to be interesting to see what happens next. What happens if Harris certifies Florida for bush and he becomes our President-elect? Now in a few days the manual recount shows that, Gore in fact, won the state. We will now have a president that has won an election without winning the popular vote or (by all rights) the electoral vote. Jeb and Harris should be proud, they kept their promise and delivered Florida for Dubya. You think Harris will get that ambassadorship now? ------------------ 'Deeds, not words, shall speak me.'
Well we all know that this can (and will) be appealed. But let's say hypothetically that the Secretary of State's discretionary refusal to admit the latest count is upheld, and further that a recount ends up favoring Gore. (Further, assume that the manual recount ends up being the most accurate) The electors are not forced to vote with the party. I would like to think that enough of the electors would "vote their conscience" so to speak, and give their votes to the candidate who won the most votes in the state. And, that could happen. It's definitely not over yet. ------------------
There's no way the recount could show Gore winning Florida, because all the counties aren't being recounted. ------------------ People like to slam Bush's education record, but at least Texans know how to punch holes.
Sorry freak, I should have said "what if". And we still don't know the results of the absentee ballots. So even without the recount, Gore could still win. It's an interesting scenario though. [This message has been edited by mc mark (edited November 17, 2000).]
This was obviously posted to get a response, and really proves my point. How many recounts have we had? And how many has Albert won? Yet Gore-backers think that as soon as a biased hand count by a group of Votamatic-wielding democrats in selective democratic counties is in, alas we finally have a real count of the state of Florida and Al Gore is the winner. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
Everybody step back and take a deep breath. Thank you. Now, in my opinion, if this decision holds up when it is appealed by the Democrats (as it certainly will be), then Dubya will become the 43rd President. I don't have a problem with the handcounts. I think they are inevitable when the margin of difference is 300 freaking Florida votes out of 5.8 million that were cast!. That is "hair-on-the-chinny-chin-chin" territory, people! I have a problem with the Republicans because they have declared themselves the winners before each vote has been counted! I have a problem with the Democrats because they want this crap to go on until they get numbers that show Gore is ahead! Any one question why I voted for Nader? And Clutch, you are an old friend, and I've watched this site grow into the beauty that it is over the past few years. I cannot tell you what to think or do but, PLEASE, I feel you need to get past your obvious hatred for Al Gore. What did he do to you? Key your car? Run away with your wife? What? If Dubya wins this election, there is a very good chance your pal Al will be elected President of the USA in 2004. And possibly 2008. What are you going to do, move to Canada and change this site to RaptorCity.Net? SAY IT AIN'T SO!! Yes, Al Gore is a lying two-faced scumbag politician. Just like George W. Bush. You can disagree with and lampoon Gore all you want, but please save your hate for someone who has earned it, like Adolf Hitler or somebody. Or, better yet, save it for Frank Swindle!! Now THERE's someone we can ALL despise!!!!! ------------------ I am the b*stard son of LHutz. Huh? Right! [This message has been edited by RocketMan Tex (edited November 17, 2000).] [This message has been edited by RocketMan Tex (edited November 17, 2000).]
Well, at least we know Clutch is uninformed about the process. You might want to get your facts straight in the future, Clutch. How many recounts have we had? One. Two is standard under Florida law. One automatic, one by request. And how many has Albert won? as soon as a biased hand count by a group of Votamatic-wielding democrats Recounts are done by groups of 3 people: One Democrat, one Republican, and one Independent. in selective democratic counties is in Contrary to your stereotyping, some Gore supporters, and now Gore himself has opened up this option, think the appropriate solution is a full manual count of Florida. we finally have a real count of the state of Florida and Al Gore is the winner. Not true at all. We will finally have a winner, although that may not be Al Gore. I'm confused why you think a manual recount -- standard procedure in over 40 states, including Texas and Florida -- is wrong. ------------------ Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him? I didnt think so!!!!
Al Gore did key my car. It was years ago, but I am still upset about it. Clutch is just standing up for me. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
So if the Florida Supreme Court sides with the Secretary of State and allows her to not accept any recounted results, do those of you who support Gore's recount efforts want him to keep fighting to get the recounts entered (by going to the US Courts), or would you rather him just give up at that point? (And remember, this is just a hypothetical. I don't know how the Florida Supreme Court will rule. I am just curious as to what everybody thinks) ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
I stated last week (after the first recount) that I was for a fair count of the ballots and for Gore to stop all litigation and accept the outcome of the absentee count. I stand by that statement. ------------------ 'Deeds, not words, shall speak me.'
mrpaige, I can't speak for anyone else, but I think Gore should go to the Florida Supreme Court and be done with it. I don't think the Federal Courts have have jurisdiction over this matter, and I don't want politicians (ie, Katherine Harris or the Attny General) deciding whether votes count or not. This is the purpose of courts and I think we should use them. Whatever the Florida Supreme Court rules, I don't care -- I just want them to rule on it to add legitimacy to whoever wins. ------------------ Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him? I didnt think so!!!!
By the way, the Florida Supreme Court has issued a ruling stating Harris cannot certify the vote until they rule on the matter. The Court will hear arguments on Monday. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
mrpaige, That's a no-win question based on the hypothetical you've proposed. You are asking, if Gore loses in Florida should he keep fighting, or give up? As for me, I want accuracy. With a vote this close, I want to see what the hand count says. Especially since Palm Beach is supposed to conclude its recount by Tuesday. I am very disappointed that this issue is in the court system to begin with. Turning the tables, I'd be interested in hearing whether you or other Bush supporters would be in favor of further appeal if his camp loses in the Florida Supreme Court on Monday. (The court just issued an injunction against certifying the vote pending its own hearing on the recount, Monday afternoon). ------------------
How is it a no-win question? If the court rules against the Gore campaign should he take the matter to the Federal Courts or should he let the matter die right there? That's no no-win, that's just the situation the VP will potentially face next week. If the Bush camp loses at the Florida Supreme Court, then I say let that matter die there. If the Court says recounts have to be accepted, though, then I say let's hand recount the whole state. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
I'm at the point now to where I just want it to end. I'd prefer to have an accurate count of all votes in Florida because it is so close. .05% should not be a deciding margin but if the courts say it is then maybe Gore should just accept it and move on. Neither guy will accomplish much in their 4 years anyway. No matter who wins, exactly half of the country will not agree with them or the decision. I'm also pretty positive that if Bush wins the Reps will continue distorting, errr spinning the facts to their advantage. I expect them to keep flaming Gore (even after they win) in order to make him and Dems look bad. I also expect the shoe to go on the other foot, meaning that the Dems will do what the Reps did for the past 8 years: do everything in their power to discredit the Pres. ------------------ RocketFuel is dead!
So I take it you also feel that Gore winning the popular vote by less than .05% is also not a deciding margin? Would you like to manually recount the entire country? I only mention this because you've made it a point in other threads how "the country will not get what it wants" since Gore "won" the popular vote. I myself recognize that the popular vote is irrelevant in deciding the president. ------------------ People like to slam Bush's education record, but at least Texans know how to punch holes.
I agree to an extent Freak. It just seems that it will be an easier pill to swallow if the guy who actually got more votes actually wins. I've been defending Gore so much because I simply can not stand or trust Bush. ------------------ RocketFuel is dead!
My biggest fear is that all this wrangling in court will so turn people off to the process that we'll end up with a President Jesse Ventura in 2004. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
strange ------------------ And Florida's 25 electoral votes go to ...Ralph Nader [This message has been edited by moestavern19 (edited November 17, 2000).]
