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Saudi Judo athlete to withdraw if hijab banned

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Air Langhi, Jul 30, 2012.

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Should she have to take of her hijab

  1. yes

    26 vote(s)
    40.6%
  2. No

    30 vote(s)
    46.9%
  3. I don't know

    8 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    EDDAH, Saudi Arabia | Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:03pm EDT

    (Reuters) - A Saudi Arabian judo competitor, one of the first two female athletes sent to the Olympics by the conservative kingdom, will withdraw if she is not allowed to wear her hijab or headscarf, during bouts, her father was quoted as saying.

    Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shaherkani is due to compete in the +78 kg judo category on Friday. A Saudi official said earlier this month its female athletes would have to obey Islamic dress codes.

    But last week, International Judo Federation (IJF) president Marius Vizer said Shaherkani would have to fight without a headscarf to comply with "the principle and spirit of judo".

    Sunday's edition of Saudi Arabia's al-Watan newspaper quoted the father, Ali Shaherkani, as saying over the telephone from Britain that his daughter "will not compete in the Judo Games on August 3 if the committee insists that she removes her hijab".

    He was quoted as telling al-Watan he had not heard back from the International Olympic Committee (IOC) on the matter.

    The IJF, whose regulations for the Olympic Games state no headgear can be worn, was in regular discussions with Olympic and Saudi officials to find a solution, IJF spokesman Nicolas Messner said.

    He said the hijab was banned for safety reasons, as judo fighters can try to strangle each other using their judogi or kit. While using a hijab to do this would be illegal it could happen by mistake during a move.

    "It can be dangerous," Messner said. "It could happen during a move, something wrong could happen."

    Constructive talks had taken place between the federation and the athlete, as well as the IOC and other organizers to see if a solution could be found, a spokesman for the IOC told reporters on Sunday.

    "I read that somewhere that there was a threat to withdraw - as far as I know that is not true at all," he added.

    "And we are still very confident of a positive outcome. And at this stage to be honest the best thing to do is to allow them to work that out, and try to get the athlete to compete. And we remain very positive on that."

    Female participation in sports has long been a controversial issue in Saudi Arabia, where conservative Muslim clerics have said it is immodest and goes against women's nature.

    Until this year, Saudi Arabia was one of three countries, alongside Brunei and Qatar, never to have sent female athletes to the Olympics. Human rights groups urged the IOC to ban the countries from the Games unless they agreed to send women.

    Saudi Arabia reached an agreement on the participation of Shaherkhani and Sarah Attar, an 800-m runner, just two weeks ago after talks with the IOC.

    (Reporting by Asma Alsharif; additional reporting by Avril Ormsby in London; Editing by Michael Roddy and Ralph Boulton)

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/29/us-oly-ksa-hijab-day-idUSBRE86S0MR20120729

    I don't really know enough about judo to judge this, hopefully our resident judo expert can help us with that.
     
  2. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Feel so sorry for her. After being called a prostitute by members of her own community just for participating, and after begging the kingdom to allow them to go, they tell her that hijab is not allowed. Whatever happens, I hope it's her own decision. If she doesn't compete, she'll have endured all this for nothing.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

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    This sheds a light on how messed up and fanatic the rules in that country due to their interpretation of Islam are. If that ends up being her achievement, then well done.
     
  4. Honey Bear

    Honey Bear Member

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    Damn, 78 kg + on a woman? Pretty sure all the girls in that category could use a headscarf.
     
  5. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    I hope they don't allow her to wear it. Persecute women in your own country, we don't want to see that nonsense at the Olympics. Time to grow up Saudis.
     
  6. sw847

    sw847 Member

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    would that be fair on her? what about human rights? if she chooses to wear it, why not respect that?

    the way I see it, the country have made an improvement just sending her there. why not respect their 'culture'?

    How is this non-sense? just because you don't support it? I personally don't agree with it and feel it is stupid, but it is what it is. I think you should grow up.

    To be fair on her, it is her risk to take, why not just let her? its not like she is having an advantage.
     
  7. IzakDavid13

    IzakDavid13 Member

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    To answer your questions...this is about Judo. Judo has rules and regulations and a uniform code. Would it be fair to the principle & spirit of Judo, and its adherents, to circumvent 130 years of tradition and allow a headscarf?

    It is not a human rights issue.
    Example...
    If a nudist wanted to compete in the Olympics nude, would you champion his or her human right not to wear clothing? If they choose not to wear it, why not respect that?

    As a martial artist of some experience, the head scarf can pose a lethal choking hazard, heatstroke, as well as momentary blindness, if it slips over the eyes, that can also lead to significant injury...and also lose her the match.

    If I was going up against someone in a head scarf, I would grab the base of it along with the Gi twisting and using it to submit my opponent with a choke hold.

    The Hajib in sports was never an issue until recently...but it is what it is.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    As a former competitor, coach and Judo referee I completely agree with the IJF's ruling. I am also surprised she is withdrawing now as I had heard earlier an agreement with Saudi Olympics organization had been reached that would allow her to compete without Hijab.

    There are two issues here from the IJF's point of view with why this ban is in place.
    1. Is that there is a legitimate safety concern regarding the Hijab getting tangled up during grip fighting and inadvertantly choking or otherwise injuring a competitor. For those of you not familiar with Judo watch this footage from the 2008 Olympics.
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FFaNsAABJXw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    While grabbing the hair isn't allowed and a head covering like the hijab wouldn't be allowed to be grabbed note how many high grips there are around the neck which could easily snare a hijab inadvertantly. Also for reference IJF rules don't allow any head coverings so this isn't singling out the hijab but things like Yarmulkes and turbans wouldn't be allowed, even hair ties that are dangling or hair extensions are not allowed. Also for safety reasons jewelry (even wedding rings) aren't allowed during competition

    2. The second is Judo tradition. Judo was founded by Dr. Kano Jigoro as a means of transmitting Japanese culture through a sport system and as such is tradition bound to a fair degree unlike other sports. We are required to wear a uniform (Gi) with fairly strict regulations regarding cut and what we can wear on it or under it. Men cannot wear T-shirts or Under Armour shirts underneath their Gi and women have to wear white T-Shirts (not Under Armour) underneath their Gi. This is to maintain a uniform look of Judo and keep the focus on the sport rather than on expression through what the competitors are wearing.

    Also this isn't the only cultural conflict that has occurred between Judo rules and religious traditions. There have been lawsuits brought against the IJF and USA Judo regarding the need to bow at the beginning and end of matches. This has conflicted with devout Muslims (and some Christians) whose religious dictates that one can only bow to God. Interesting enough most of these suits have been brought not by a Muslim but a secular former Minnesota Judo coach who has been upset about how Japanese Judo is. These lawsuits haven't succeeded though on the grounds that Judo has the right to set its own rules.

    On a personal note my own Judo club has dealt with the issue of students who couldn't bow because of religious reasons and devout Muslim and Hasidic Jewish students who couldn't touch women unless they were related to them. We've generally accommodated them in practice but have made it clear that they weren't allowed to compete unless they followed all of the rules.
     
  9. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    My favorite part of the quote. She's a grown woman. I'm sure she has made her decission and every male relative of hers has made theirs.

    Respect what?
     
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Actually there could be a potential advantage in that an opponent may end up gripping the hijab instead of the Gi collar on accident which would make it more difficult to execute a throw.

    This is why consistency of uniform is important so there is consistency of competition.
     
  11. IzakDavid13

    IzakDavid13 Member

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    Thank you...

    Hit the nail on the head.
     
  12. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Why did she bother compete in sports like the Olympics?
     
  13. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    The Assassins say let her keep the mask!
    [​IMG]
     
  14. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Member

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    5:50 or so that guy gets slammed to the mat with a grip on his boys. Tradition? If that's legal, I don't see why the head gear shouldn't be.

    Seriously though, can't start allowing special uniforms and equipment for everyone, can you? I know it's important, but if you want to compete you gotta follow the rules.
     
  15. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    I completely understand the aspect of tradition. It is/was a Japanese tradition, and therefore other cultures that wish to take part should respect the initial rules.

    However, as someone who hopes to encourage religious tolerance throughout the world, it is worrisome. Certainly the aspect of safety is a genuine concern, but considering the history of tolerance in Europe and the Middle East, it is concerning.

    The bowing thing annoys me. Islam preaches against idolatry. That's why they are not supposed to paint pictures of Prophets. Bowing to a human in respect for a sport is not equivalent to bowing before a God. It annoys the hell out of me that people have taken the word so literal that we can't even respect one another because God may confuse it with worship...DUMB. God knows if you respect him or not, he doesn't need to hear it from you, he can see it in you. If there is a God, all of these rules and customs have to be a joke in his eyes. I mean he has to sit up there in the clouds just laughing his ass off at the dumb **** the religious do "in his name."

    Back to the Saudi woman. Would it be appropriate for her to sign a waiver? She is putting herself at risk, not the other opponent, correct? If she is willing to risk accidental death or severe injury, than let her compete, it doesn't appear to give her any advantage. I'm sure she believes God would protect her...
     
  16. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    I think he just had a hold of the gi pants.
     
  17. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    FWIW the hijab is not a religious thing. This is just a cultural piece of clothing.
     
  18. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    From the way I understand from RJ if the opponent grabs the Hijab then they get disqualified and they might accidentally grab it. You can't really make two sets of rules.
     
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I'm gonna take a stab and say that she already went through this beforehand, but started to get more heat on the prospects of returning home.

    The idea that an Olympic level participant wouldn't know the spirit and essence of whatever sport she's playing reeks of Cobra Kai level BS. I'm giving her that benefit of the doubt that she knows better. Unfortunately, her idealism is slowly crashing with the reality surrounding her...

    What you're seeing here is last minute panic for her to bow out gracefully in the eyes of her people...
     
  20. stthomsfinest

    stthomsfinest Member

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    I'm sorry but you are wrong. It very much is a religious thing and coincides with religious modesty. Linguistically, "hijab" means dress code in accordance to Islam. So using this phrase, Men have a hijab to follow as well as women. Men are obligated to at least cover the navel to the knees and cover their shoulders.

    Women have a few more restrictions because they possess more adornments of beauty that attract the attention of men, thus the recommendation of wearing loose clothing to not give off the shape of the body and covering of parts like hair etc.

    It all falls into modesty in the end and ultimately is a matter of personal choice for women that want to be obedient to God's laws. Just like Catholic nuns or Orthodox Jewish women wear modest outfits and cover their hair to show their devotion to their religion, same with Muslim women that choose to wear the Hijab or go even further to wear the jilbab/burqa.

    As for the topic of the Saudi woman opting out if she has to take off the Hijab, that should be left totally up to her, and I'm guessing she wouldn't compromise her beliefs just for the sake of competition. Maybe she didn't want to speak to the media and had her dad speak for her. I dont know. I personally think they either allow it or find some alternative where she can keep her hair covered and compete.
     
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