http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/25/moscow.siege/index.html According to CNN breaking news, Russian forces are saying they have reclaimed control of the theater where Chechen rebels had held some 700 hostages. Apparently the rebels, as promised, started killing hostages and hostages started to flee... and that's when Russian troops stormed in. That to me is simply <I>amazing</I> work, if accurate. 40 armed bastards "willing to die" with bombs strapped to their chest, mines supposedly planted all over the building and promises issued to kill 10 hostages for every one of them that is shot at or killed? To be brutally honest, I thought this was going to turn out much, much worse for sure.
<A HREF="http://www.gazeta.ru/english/">Russian news site</A> Things seem to be a little worse as more becomes known. They add more info as it becomes available.........so refresh the page every 30 minutes or so.
While on a certain level the decisiveness of the Russians is appealing, I think that the result is sort of like the siege of Waco ---needless killing of innocent hostages, when patience might have done better. Very unfortunate. I must admit I don't know much about the Chechnean situation. Why is Russia so determined to hold on to this particular republic when it let the others go? It looks to me like they are getting themselves into a Norther Ireland situation or Palestinian situation and for what exactly I don't know.
I don't know about that. Since the captors were executing more hostages, it may well have been that being patient would've meant a larger loss of life.
The Russians did the right thing here. Like was said, they apparently started killing some of the hostages before the siege took place as their demands were not being met. Many more people would have died...if not all of them...had they not stormed the building. As far as Chechnya, they have many Muslim extremists who fall into the terrorist category and they need to be dealt with. They were given a chance at independence when Boris Yeltsin withdrew and they elected a leader. However, they tried to expand out of Chechnya up north as part of some mission to expand an Islamic stronghold. Chechnya does have some moderate elements but they are poisoned by their radical elements. It's been said there is an Al Qaeda link and many Islamic extremists have discussed about wanting to join the fight there. I think they need to be snuffed out after this one. The only problem with that is more innocent civilians will die as a result. If you quit the war against Chechnya now, then they and their radical elements win. And, that part of the war on terror will be lost and...who knows...that may even be a new safe haven for terrorists to congregate. That is unacceptable...especially after what happened in the theater.
It always takes a little luck to defuse a situation like this. Had the 30 devices been detonated and instead of being duds, the whole story changes.
Something's strange about the whole way this ended. CNN is now reporting that almost all the hostages that died.....died as a result of the gas. So basically it seems the Russians sacrificed a minority of the hostages for the majority...... I also wonder how many of the hostage takers were summarily executed while they were under the effect of the gas....aka sleeping.
Damn. The gas seemed like a good idea to immobilize the terrorists. However, it didn't work out too well because the gas actually caused casualties with most apparently suffocating or drowning in their own vomit. I still think it turned out better than it would have because they immobilized the suicide bomber women and all the terrorists. What else can you do? If you do nothing, then you might lose them all. What I don't understand is the Russians seem as inept as ever as far as providing accurate information. They almost seem to be lying saying hostages died for various other reasons and not the gas. Then, it comes out that all but one of the hostage deaths occurred as a result of the gas. Never can get a straight story. Not to mention that some of the victims may have died because of the delay of moving them from the theater to the hospital rather than treating them at the scene. Now, there are hospitalized hostage victims suffering from ill effects of the gas(with some severe cases) and their not letting victims' families anywhere near them. It's like another hostage situation all over again. Is that any way to help the families in this desperate time?
The government isn't even releasing the name of the gas that was used to the hospitals or doctors. Therefore, no appropriate antidote can even be administered to the patients.
Just heard a report that of the 117 fatalities, 115 of them were caused by the gas... can't say that's too successful.
I would still call it succesful. They heard shooting inside when these terrorists started shooting at a little boy. They did what they had to do. If they just went in there the whole place blows up and noone survives. Teach the terrorists a lesson. If you threaten to kill people, you will die. I hope the Soviets did execute these individuals. Granted it is never good to see innocent people die, but a majority of the people survived. Again my premise is the Russians heard shooting inside and knew they had to do something. Props to the Russions for dealing with terrorists in the right way. Sets a good example and I hop eother terrorists see their brothers and sisters dead.
So far. This from today's Christian Science Monitor: But by Sunday evening, Andrei Seltsovsky, chairman of the health committee of the city of Moscow, admitted 117 had died from the gas. The released hostages were still being held incommunicado in Moscow hospitals, and desperate relatives were not permitted to see them. Dr. Seltsovsky said that 646 of the freed hostages were still in the hospital, 150 were in intensive care, and 45 "in a grave condition." I agree that Russians felt they had to do something. But there is concern that they may have made some serious missteps in the use of gas, including the fact that some of the hostages died because they weren't treated at the theater, but rather, were transported to a hospital first. The authorities still aren't saying what gas they used, which is making treatment difficult. As Surf mentioned, to further compound the families' miseries, the hostages are now being kept incommunicado at several hospitals. So many families can't find out if their loved ones are dead or alive. I really feel bad for all of them.
It's up to 116 now Doc, I just heard. And the numbers are expect to go up. *Sigh*. Now the Russians think that Al-Qaeda may have had a hand in it.
I have to respectfully disagree. The Islamists had enough explosives strapped to their bodies to kill everybody, and collapsed the theater. They had to have known that Russia would never meet their demands, so my guess is that the plan was to kill all the hostages in a suicide mission. This was a highly successful rescue, and I am very impressed with the professionalism of the Russian Special Ops guys.
Yahoo (Reuters) has an excellent article up. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021027/wl_nm/russia_siege_dc_66 This makes me sick to my stomach. I started out thinking it was the rebels who used the gas, but the Russians were in it for a "winner takes all" situation. I do realize that with hostage situations as enormous as these law enforcement needs to use all their resources to complete their objective, but to use agents that have unpronounced effects is essentially chemical warfare. What's the use of "saving" the hostages if everyone is going to die by the police's actions regardless of the outcome? Well, the Russians can claim success because nothing was blown up and most of the bad guys died, but what a helluva way to do it... I'm becoming to be (or even more) scared of what "world order" will be.
I don't see much professionalism in walking into a theater full of drugged terrorists and executing them...doesn't take alot to pull the trigger on someone thats snoring. Then dragging the uncouncious hostages out into the freezing rain and tossing them down to choke on their on vomit. As for sucess....guess that depends on how you much value you put on the ones that died....and will die because of a heavy handed russian govt that used gas designed for use on soldiers on women and elderly people. I'm sure if you ask the surviors....if there are any in the end....they'll say it was a success, except maybe for the ones that lost spouses....parents...etc. Sounds more like a clusterf*ck to me......
You miss the point! This was a suicide mission from the very start. The Islamists knew for a fact that Russia would never pull out of Chechnya because of this hostage taking. The terrorists were planning on killing 800 people and themselves. The fact that 700 survived is a friggin' miracle. Also, I am glad the Russians executed the drugged terrorists. You don't wait for people who have strapped explosives to their bodies to wake up. This was an incredible success.
moonDogg and t4651965, you BOTH missed the point. MoonDogg- they didn't "execute" the terrorists by slaying them in the theatre point blank. the terrorists died with the hostages from the gas! it's right there in the report->"A Health Ministry official quoted by Interfax confirmed that 118 hostages had died, with 50, or nearly all of, their captors." t4651965 there is a big difference between Islamists and Chechnyan Rebels. Although some of the terrorists in Moscow may have been tied to Al-Qaida, and maybe even some of the terrorists in Moscow were Muslim, They were not "Islamists", or exteremists fighting for jihad they were rebels demanding an end to the war in Chechnya. I just don't think labeling them "Islamists" is accurate. an Islamist fights holy war. a Chechnyan rebel doesn't.
