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Russia: We will attack Poland if US puts Muissle Defense System there

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by pgabriel, Aug 20, 2008.

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  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Condoleezza's reaction is kind of funny


    WARSAW, Poland — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her Polish counterpart signed a deal today to build a U.S. missile defense base in Poland, an agreement that prompted an infuriated Russia to warn of a possible attack against the former Soviet satellite.

    Rice dismissed blustery comments from Russian leaders who say Warsaw's hosting of 10 U.S. interceptor missiles just 115 miles from Russia's westernmost frontier opens the country up to attack.

    Such comments "border on the bizarre frankly," Rice said, speaking to reporters traveling with her in Warsaw.

    "When you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."

    The deal, which Washington sought as a way of defending the U.S. and Europe from a hypothetical threat of long-distance missiles from Iran, has strained relations between Moscow and the West. Those ties were already troubled by Russia's invasion of its former Soviet neighbor, U.S. ally Georgia, earlier this month.

    Speaking to reporters traveling with her, Rice said, "the Russians are losing their credibility."

    Rice and Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski signed the deal this morning.

    "It is an agreement which will help us to respond to the threats of the 21st century," she said afterward.

    Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the agreement came after tough but friendly negotiations.

    "We have achieved our main goals, which means that our country and the United States will be more secure," he said.

    After Warsaw and Washington announced the agreement on the deal last week, top Russian Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn warned that Poland is risking attack, and possibly a nuclear one, by deploying the American missile defense system, Russia's Interfax news agency reported.

    Poles have been shaken by the threats, but NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop dismissed them Tuesday as "pathetic rhetoric."

    "It is unhelpful and it leads nowhere," he told reporters at a NATO meeting in Brussels, Belgium.

    Today, Russia's Foreign Ministry issued a statement saying the U.S. missile shield plans are clearly aimed at weakening Russia and that Moscow's response to their further development will go beyond diplomacy.

    Many Poles consider the agreement a form of protection at a time when Russia's invasion of Georgia has generated alarm throughout Eastern Europe. Poland is a member of the European Union and NATO, and the deal is expected to deepen its military partnership with Washington.

    Polish President Lech Kaczynski also expressed "great satisfaction" at the outcome of the long months of negotiations.

    Poland and the United States spent a year and a half negotiating, and talks recently had snagged on Poland's demands that the U.S. bolster Polish security with Patriot missiles in exchange for hosting the missile defense base.

    Washington agreed to do so last week, as Poland invoked the Georgia conflict to strengthen its case.

    The Patriots are meant to protect Poland from short-range missiles from neighbors — such as Russia.

    The U.S. already has reached an agreement with the government in Prague to place the second component of the missile defense shield — a radar tracking system — in the Czech Republic, Poland's southwestern neighbor and another formerly communist country.

    Approval is still needed the Czech and Polish parliaments.

    No date has been set for the Polish parliament to consider the agreement, but it should face no difficulties in Warsaw, where it enjoys the support of the largest opposition party as well as the government.


    I had to bold Dr. Rice going TJ
     
    #1 pgabriel, Aug 20, 2008
  2. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Member

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    Why are the Russians so deeply offended by this missile system if they are clearly meant as a form of defense? Is it because Russia had plans to eventually attack Poland all along or what?
     
    #2 baller4life315, Aug 20, 2008
  3. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    It isn't so clear cut that they are purely for defense. They could easily be modified to take out VIP flights over Moscow

    This isn't exactly the same thing but it's wicked and I'd be nervous as hell if I were a president in range of one.

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6moykp96hAI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6moykp96hAI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
    #3 lpbman, Aug 20, 2008
  4. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Huh? What would be the point?
     
    #4 Ottomaton, Aug 20, 2008
  5. God's Son

    God's Son Member

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    i guarantee russia will put something in venezuela or cuba soon :eek:
     
    #5 God's Son, Aug 20, 2008
  6. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    #6 justtxyank, Aug 20, 2008
  7. Major

    Major Member

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    If Russia put missiles in Cuba, would you believe they are entirely for defense? There's quite a history there, and they probably don't exactly trust our intentions, right or wrong.
     
    #7 Major, Aug 20, 2008
  8. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Member

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    I understand the the flip side of that argument and the comparison as well, but I doubt the Russians are interested in another Cuban Missile Crisis.
     
    #8 baller4life315, Aug 20, 2008
  9. CBrownFanClub

    CBrownFanClub Member

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    Awesome!
    sincerely,
    1961
     
    #9 CBrownFanClub, Aug 20, 2008
  10. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    Militarily? None really.

    But think about Russian SAM capability over Washington and tell me that wouldn't make you nervous as president.
     
    #10 lpbman, Aug 20, 2008
  11. glynch

    glynch Member

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    They're Russkies. We're America. How dare you suggest that there is any comparison or there should be any sort of equivalence.

    What are the best stocks for the new cold war? Forget about alternative energy, health care and the rest, the Russians are coming.


    We need bomber McCain to protect us from the Russians.

    PS We also need another tax cut to strengthen country for this emergency.
     
    #11 glynch, Aug 20, 2008
  12. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Member

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    I'm shocked the Russians don't trust the intentions of the Bush administration.
     
    #12 KingCheetah, Aug 20, 2008
  13. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    I don't think it would be any more confrontational that having ICBM's pointed at each other as already exists. And it wouldn't be like having SAM's over Washington. It would be like having SAM's in the Mid-Atlantic that could target things as far away as Washington. Also, Moscow alread has a fully functional anti-missle shield that could melt these things to slag halfway between Minsk and Moscow before they got near Moscow.

    I would also like you to provide evidence that these things can be retargeted in the (more or less) horizontal.

    Of all of their concerns, I am willing to be that the idea of turning the system into blowing up Moscow Airport flights are about at the bottom of the list. While you are looking things up, can you find any mention of this 'fear' from the Russians at all?
     
    #13 Ottomaton, Aug 20, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  14. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    Man Russia is freking awesome.

    I wish they were our friends.
     
    #14 Bandwagoner, Aug 20, 2008
  15. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    It's conjecture on my part, but that's also what the Russians have. There is the simple fact that it's an order of magnitude easier to hit something moving 600 mph vs 20,000 or so, that fuels my speculation. It's possible or even likely that capability doesn't currently exist, but I think it would be very easy to implement.

    Also, the ability to intercept the tiny KEI moving hypersonic is probably beyond a Russian missile defense, should such a thing exist.

    It's also different in that an ICBM attack on Russia instantly starts a war... no matter what is targeted in Russia. If an unfriendly Russian leader has an "accident" and someone more USA friendly is ready to take his place well bully for us. I know this all sounds like a stretch, but through the eyes of paranoid power mongers it probably sounds much more reasonable.

    I'll say again for the record, this is all conjecture on my part, the full capabilities of the GBI are classified. Russia's opposition to them aren't at all logical in my view so I'm trying to fit pieces together.
     
    #15 lpbman, Aug 20, 2008
  16. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    #16 Ottomaton, Aug 20, 2008
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Hooray for the Mayans.
     
    #17 MadMax, Aug 20, 2008
  18. danny317

    danny317 Member

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    remember the cuban missle crisis?

    although those missles were offensive weapons and the missles in poland will be defensive, these defensive missles could easily be changed to offensive.

    but russia needs to realize that a missle sheild of 10 missles stands no match against their arsenal of nukes...

    furthermore, i think the whole idea of a missle shield is a little ridiculous...

    a country like russia only needs to land one nuke to cause incredible damage.

    lets say they launch 100 nukes and 900 conventional missles. the shield would have to take out all 1000 missles. and we would also have to consider the fallout...
     
    #18 danny317, Aug 20, 2008
  19. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    Not if you never see it (Though the GBI IR plume would be obvious). KEI is 55 inches long, 24 inches in diameter, and weighs 140 pounds and moves at 3.5 miles per second. Even if Russia's missile defense is something more than a paper countermeasure to Star Wars, GBI's will be over Moscow in less than 5 minutes.

    Russia isn't intercepting our interceptors with nukes over it's own territory. I doubt they make it out of the silo.
     
    #19 lpbman, Aug 20, 2008
  20. lalala902102001

    lalala902102001 Member

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    Now that's a blast from the past.
     
    #20 lalala902102001, Aug 20, 2008
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