I have my streaks of temper. I'm also not the biggest fan of Germany right now, but I'm only one person with my own flaws. I don't have the power to determine the lives of 2 million American soldiers and many more people in other countries. We're not in the feudal age where peons can be tied up and publicly executed as an example to all. Rumsfeld needs to grow up. US to punish German 'treachery' Peter Beaumont, David Roseand Paul Beaver Sunday February 16, 2003 The Observer America is to punish Germany for leading international opposition to a war against Iraq. The US will withdraw all its troops and bases from there and end military and industrial co-operation between the two countries - moves that could cost the Germans billions of euros. The plan - discussed by Pentagon officials and military chiefs last week on the orders of Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld - is designed 'to harm' the German economy to make an example of the country for what US hawks see as Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's 'treachery'. The hawks believe that making an example of Germany will force other countries heavily dependent on US trade to think twice about standing up to America in future. This follows weeks of increasingly angry exchanges between Rumsfeld and Germany, in which at one point he taunted Germany and France for being an irrelevant part of 'old Europe'. Now Rumsfeld has decided to go further by unilaterally imposing the Pentagon's sanctions on a country already in the throes of economic problems. 'We are doing this for one reason only: to harm the German economy,' one source told The Observer last week. 'Our troops contribute many millions of dollars. Why should we continue to support a country which has treated Nato and the protection we provided for decades with such incredible contempt?' Another Pentagon source said: 'The aim is to hit German trade and commerce. It is not just about taking out the troops and equipment; it is also about cancelling commercial contracts and defence-related arrangements.' The Pentagon plan - and the language expressed by officials close to Rumsfeld - has horrified State Department officials, who believe that bullying other countries to follow the US line will further exacerbate anti-Americanism and alienate those European countries that might support a United Nations resolution authorising a war. German industry earns billions of euros every year from supporting the US Army Europe which, although reduced from its Cold War heights, still totals 42,000 troops and 785 tanks - almost three times as many as the British Army owns. Many of these soldiers and their fighting equipment, including Apache helicopters, have already been sent to the Gulf. German industry is heavily involved in supporting the US presence. Among the defence companies which stand to lose out are missile-maker Diehl, aerospace and defence giant EADS Deutschland, armaments maker Rheinmetall and vehicle maker Krauss-Maffei Wegmann. There is also a US Air Force contingent of about 15,000 service people with bases at Bitburg, Frankfurt-am-Main and neighbouring Ramstein, where the commander doubles as part of the Nato command. This force includes nearly 60 F-16 fighter-bombers and a squadron of A-10 tank-buster aircraft. Rumsfeld and his staff have made no attempt to hide their fury at Schröder's 'treachery and ineptitude' over Iraq. Last week Schröder leaked to reporters a Franco-German plan for avoiding war by increasing the number of UN weapons inspectors before informing his American counterparts. 'After this, Germany is finished as a serious power,' one of the sources added. 'This is simply not the way to conduct diplomacy at a moment of international crisis.' One diplomatic source said Rumsfeld was 'furious at Germany. He is a bruiser and it looks as though he means to do it'. Under these plans, the US would move its troops in Europe eastwards to countries such as Poland, the Czech Republic and the Baltic states, all of which have strongly supported America's line against Saddam Hussein. It is likely that the overall size of the deployment would be reduced, as the US military changes its priorities for a long-term and disparate engagement with international terrorism. Although Rumsfeld had already been considering a redeployment of US troops around the world after a war in Iraq to save money and respond to new threats, the plans now under consideration go far beyond what had been discussed. It is likely that future years will see a sharp increase in the proportion of special forces troops able to deploy rapidly across the globe. Germany would suffer considerable financial loss if US forces were withdrawn from the country. The bases provide jobs for local people as everything from administrators to cleaners, and are huge customers for dairy products and bread.
wow is all i have to say to that...but in reality its not like we have to trade with them if we don't want to. however i think it sends a bad message.
The withdrawal will hurt some rural, less developed regions in Germany like the Kaiserslautern area, but it's not like those 45000 soldiers are the backbone of the German economy.
The USA and Germany will still be friends when pathetic idiots like Rumsfeld and bad politicians like Schröder will long be gone.
This is incredible. Now we're trying to bully our allies with threats? This administration in 1 year has done more damage to our international credibility than maybe any President in a very long time.
I thought our military there prevented their inevitable buildup and subsequent world domination. Do we really want a self reliant Germany again?
ps, Major, me thinks that the President is setting the stage for President Clark. Now let's hope he doesn't have a tarnished past in which he walked into a Vietnamese village and his troops murdered and raped civilians. Otherwise, I think his multilateral approach will be music to most Americans' ears.
It probably makes sense to reduce the troops in Germany anyway. I doubt the Germans see much of a need for them to be there, so why keep such a large force there? To do it out of motivation to 'harm' the German economy is downright ignorant. The German economy, like many western economies, is highly resilient and most shocks like this are transitory. Further damage to German-American relations may not be. The German 'behind the back' tactic may have been rude for an ally, but not unexpected under the circumstances. Let's be honest, it sounds more like Rumsfield's simmering anger over the German anti-war position in general is what would provoke the response. That's childish. Unlike the French, the German's are standing up for their beliefs...you cannot 'punish' them for disagreeing. Rumsfield doesn't 'make' US foreign policy and trying to hurt the German economy is a policy issue. That begs the question: is this a Bush foreign policy decision or does Rumsfield feel empowered to make decision in a foreign policy vacuum?
So let me get this straight...if a country takes a position that compromises our military's ability to function, then we can't pull our military and subsequent contracts out of that country? That seems a little odd to me Major. Germany and France have been actively trading with Saddam Hussein despite the UN embargos. Seems to me that we should have vacated long ago.
Actually, I think it wasn't really an anti-American stance that helped him win (in fact, I don't think he is anti-American at all, just opportunistic). He managed to make himself out as an anti-war guy. Also, at the same time, there were these floods in Germany and he went there and promised to help the people there, etc., and really managed to benefit from the positive media exposure he got there. People now realize how much they have been misled (there is even a parliamentary commission to examine how much the German finance minister knew but did not disclose about how bad the economic situation already was). There have been a few state elections since the federal election and Schröder's party has been crushed like never before. Schröder was lucky to win the elections and I think it is mainly because of the fact that he comes across as a nicer guy personally than his counterpart in the elections. Germans are much less anti-American than, let's say, the French or Spanish. I think that Schröder's foreign policy has been the worst of any German chancellor after the war. He is good for winning elections, but I don't think he is a good chancellor. I hope that there will not be a lasting problem between the USA and Germany, but I cannot really imagine it. Then again, with people like Rumsfeld in charge, you never know.
Please provide some links for this. Probably some companies did, circumventing the embargo, but Germany as a country? No way.
The plans to pull out troops have been there for a long time, and actually, since the end of the cold war, they have already been reduced significantly. The economic effect is absolutely negligible on a national scale for Germany. But reading "'We are doing this for one reason only: to harm the German economy,' one source told The Observer last week." makes me go .
Every country acts in its own interests at times, including the thwarting of embargos or sharing of prohibited weapons (shouldn't be too hard to find some examples from the US). You don't 'punish' an ally because of that. You also don't 'punish' an ally because they disagree wirth you one time. The years of working together as allies are thrown out the window because of a childish foreign policy? How many allies does that leave you with in a few years? C'mon Ref. If you ever wanted decent reason to disagree with the Bush admin position (to prove your objectivity), this might be a good time (IMHO, of course).
So let me get this straight...if a country takes a position that compromises our military's ability to function, then we can't pull our military and subsequent contracts out of that country? That seems a little odd to me Major. When it's done simply to punish an ally because they disagree with us, then its bullying and childish: <I>The plan - discussed by Pentagon officials and military chiefs last week on the orders of Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld - is designed 'to harm' the German economy to make an example of the country for what US hawks see as Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's 'treachery'.</I> As far as international credibility goes, according to Gallup Polls, 1 year ago: 76% of Americans thought world leaders respected Bush 71% were satisfied with the US position in the world 79% believed the US rates favorably internationally Today: 46% of Americans think world leaders respect Bush 55% are satisfied with the US position in the world 57% believe the US rates favorably internationally He has lost all credibility and respect that was given to him after 9/11 because he has no freaking clue how to work with other countries. His philosophy appears to be that if you don't do everything we want then you're not an ally or friend. Remember when the big concern during the 2000 election was his ignorance of foreign affairs? Here we're seeing it in action. This is going to do wonders for us the next time we have a different international dispute to deal with.
SJC, Thanks for the info. The media over here made it seem like Schröder won on the anti-American platform. The French have had penis envy for years. They have a great country so I find it rather bizzarre. Guess they have to feel they are the most powerful and influential in addition to arguably having some of the best culture, art, cities and food (sans snails) on the planet. The Spain issue I was totally ignorant of. What's their problem with the US? Harbor resentment from the imperialistic days?
You should check the international polls. 4 million people protested in Spain yesterday, that is like 10 % of the whole population. Even if he is right about Saddam, this is not a sign that the US administration's foreign policy is very successful. Threatening to harm allies because they disagree once, having people in the whole world stand up against you - especially if you are right, you don't need that kind of thing. But it is partly your own fault if it gets that far. What diplomacy school did Rumsfeld go to?
