Rules for Buying/Installing RAM (EDO)

DREAMer --

As much as I hate Bill Gates and Microsoft, I LOVE Windows ME. I had tons of problems with it for about 5 months, then I did another fresh install, some tweaking, and it doesn't crash but maybe 3 or 4 times a month . . .

If I were you, I'd get a new PC, instead of fiddling with this -- build a new computer, and you'll save money. It's not hard, and if you want, I can draw you up an entire spec as to what you should buy, and where to get it. Heck, if you want, I can build it for you Actually, it's so easy that you could do it even without much computer knowledge. Now-a-days, it's as easy as just plugging some cables in, setting a couple things, and installing Windows.

Now about RAM,

RAM is freakishly simple to install. HOWEVER, you could run into some pitfalls because you are running a Packard Hell. I've done memory upgrades where it recognizes less after putting new RAM in -- WEIRD STUFF. Plus, it's impossible to get into the BIOS on many of the machines.

Now actually installing it is so easy you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. EDO SIMMS are harder than DIMMS, but it's still easy. You will see your memory bank. Just insert the RAM at a 45 degree angle with the tabs all lining up -- you can't install it backwards, so this is easy. Put in in at 45 degrees, then flip it up to 90 degrees -- it will click. Start up your computer and see if it tells you that you've got more.

You can install the 2x32 with the 2x16s

On your question three, you NEVER know what's gonna happen with a Packard Bell, but theoretically, you should be able to install regular EDO SIMMS. Nothing special, just your typical stuff. You can get it for practically free now a days.

Now as to your fourth question -- YES, they are easier to upgrade. That was actually part of my sales proposition at Lightspeed -- when you buy from a local place, we use ENTIRELY standard parts. Compaq uses proprietary parts all over the place, Gateway is bad too. Dell has a few proprietary parts, but it's mostly standard. But you will be loathe to find easier-to-upgrade systems than those from local dealers.

You'll also get a better price, and IMO better service, because you are right around the corner. I always prop "Lightspeed" at http://www.golightspeed.com -- heck, I make more sales now than I did when I worked there If you can swing about 800 bucks, and you have a nice monitor already (you don't need a new one I mean), then you can get a very nice system in the "Volkskomputer Plus".

If you've got more questions, don't hesitate to send me an email: sigemund@postmark.net

IMO, you should just pack it in and wait until you can get a new PC, in which case you should build it yourself.

 

DREAMer,

You can pretty much use any combination, as long as they are in pairs and your motherboard can support them.

I can't believe i bought my pair of 32 EDO's for 150 each

In turn, I ended up giving them away.

Someone is bound to part with them pretty cheap. THey are next to worthless, and the only reason why they have value is because they are antiques.

 

#1: Windows ME Sucks @ss. It's Win98SE w/out all of the usefull DOS tools. I would only use SE, or Win2k.

#2: Although getting a matched pair of EDO sticks is the only concern when starting w/out any RAM, when you have RAM, it is much more important to match up the RAM you get with the RAM you have. For instance, are you sure that your current RAM is EDO, not fast page? Mixing fast page and EDO is a surefire way to screw up your computer.

#3: The general rule is: The more RAM you get, the less benifit you notice. On an obsolete system like you have, I wouldn't even consider more than 64MB. With Win98, once you hit 192MB, there is no discernable difference when you add RAM for most apps. Of course, there are exceptions, like Gigasampler, with the Bosendorfer sample, or Photoshop, with large images.

#4: EDO and Fast Page ram are easy to add. Match up the bases of the sticks with the bottoms of the slots. Then, insert the ram at a 45 degree angle. The ram will then rotate up around the base to match up with the slot at a 90 degree angle.

#5: You should realise that obsolete technologies like EDO ram come at a price premium. Though PC133 SDRAM is far superior, it is far less expensive than EDO SIMMS. This is because there are far fewer manufacturers producing the SIMMS. Therefore there is less competition, and less downward price pressure.

That's all I can think of off of the top of my head. If you live in Houston, and might be intrested in used RAM, contact me as I most likely would be able to aquire it at an extreeme discount.

 

I know from personal experience that Otto is on the level. He has helped me in a couple of computer predicaments and is a stand up guy!

Dreamer, the "guidebook" for your motherboard should also have a breakdown for your ram configuration. I know mine did....I recently maxxed out my SDRAM to 768! If I had read my "guidebook" I would have noticed that my RAM slots would not support 512RAM stick... so I returned it for 2-256 sticks and now I have more RAM than I'll ever need! 768!! silly.

rH

 

DREAMer,

You are getting types of ram and amounts of ram mixed up.

Regardless, you must have the identical sticks paired. I never really heard of "fast page" ... maybe its another term than what im used to. But yes, you do want to keep your "fast page" or EDO consistant in all four spots.

But you can mix the size of the sticks. For example,

16x16MB with 32X32MB or
16X16MB with 64X64MB or
32X32MB with 32X32MB.

But you can't do this ...
16x32MB with 64x8MB
(I have done this before, but it only matches with the lesser number ex. 16x32MB would only output 32MB)

I don't which is better to stick in what sequence, but it probably depends on your motherboard, if it matters at all.
(ex if 32x32MB in slot 1 and 2 and 16x16MB in slot 3 and 4, or switching them around)

 

DREAMer, I have a couple of old ram SIMMS from my old Packard Hell. 2x32's. I don't remember if they were Fast Page or EDO, but I can find out if need be. They much be 3 years old by now, so they are probably obsolete and useless to you. But if they match what you need and you want them, you can have them.

 

I have worked on many a Packard Bell machine and I can tell you that
they are strange when it comes to recognizing memory as vengeance said.
I would pull just add a pair of 32 or 64MB EDO sticks and be done with it. If the machine won't recognize all or part of it pull out the old and put the 2 new 32or 64Mb's in there by themselves. Almost any other machine and this isnt a issue but, I understand sometimes the budget does not allow the latest/greatest. Also try to call up some small computer stores in your area, they might have some EDO a bit cheaper.

 

Just a few notes about Windows ME that I'd like to point out, as Ottomaton's response is valid.

My experiences with WINME have been mixed, but at this time, it is doing wonderfully. I first got Windows ME last year, and did an upgrade from Win98 Second Edition to Millenium. It ran okay, but it wasn't the greatest. Upgrades are never very good, so I went and formatted, installing WINME from scratch.

Up to that point, I was the only one I knew who had problems with it. After the fresh install, my system ran well, but it still had some odd quirks. Over the course of five months or so, I did a few formats and reinstalls, and I was always having some strange little problems here and there.

But finally, I got an install that was just beautiful. No problems at all, ever. I've formatted and reinstalled twice since then, and I've had the same experience.

WINME is uncertain, but it has been my experience that most people have no problems with it. It's the only version of Windows consumer editions that I like.

 

The bastards took away my DOS. It makes it a step closer to MacOS, for the remedial computer user. It is very dificult to completely crash a MacOS system if you don't know what you're doing. This breeds stupidity.

Win98 was like a hot-rodded '67 VW Bug. It was ineffecient, and easy to break, but you could repair it yourself and when you got it running right it handled great, and you could feel it working.

Win2k is sort of like an Escalade, it's massive and eats up lots of gas, but it is smooth, sleek and stylish. The one bad thing is if it breaks down, you'd better pull out your wallet and take it to the Caddy dealership, as there are all sort of funky computerized systems under the hood that no normal mechanic will be able to work with.



The best match for WinME is a '84 Eldorado. It's big and massive, handles like a pig, and is impossible to repair. The seats may be big, soft and luxurious, but for anyone who actualy likes the driving part of driving a car, there is little substance.

Oh and Linux is sort of like a kit car - one that you're required to assemble and dissasemble every time you want to go for a ride. Everyone who buys one of these kit cars is a shade-tree mechanic that thinks they know everything about every aspect of cars... a 'car fan' in the worst sense. Each person who buys one of these kits gets a hand drawn set of instructions on how to assemble it. Unfortunately, the guy who draws them has become senile, and he draws every set of plans completely differently. Whenever one of these 'fans' decides to take another 'fan' for a ride, they spend the whole afternoon arguing about how to put the car together, and never actualy getting in the car and going anywhere.



In short:

C:\>deltree win_me_dev_team

BTW:
Fast Page is the name for the 72 pin SIMMS that are not EDO - the type of ram that you would put in a P-60 or a 486 that will handle 72 pin SIMMS. The reason that you have to put them in in pairs is that the Pentium processor's memory path is twice as the SIMMS (16bit to 32 bit?). For a 486 that takes 72pin sims, you can add one at a time.

Also, make sure you don't get ECC or Parity RAM, as mixing ECC or Parity is another way to screw things up. Alot of the 'Packard Bell' types of systems from the P200 period use 'off brand' chipsets (ie not Intel) many of these had very poor memory maximums. For instance, it is very common to have a maximum of 128MB, or a single stick maximum of 32MB if you have an Opti chipset or some of the ALI or VIA chipsets. SDRAM is alot worse, but you'd probably be better off replacing all chips at once with matching sets. Make sure whatever you get, the store will let you return it.

 

Just a note: alot of times things get mixed up when describing SIMMS.

The proper notation when buying from manufacturers would read like this:

30 Pin:
1x9 or 1x3 - a 1MB 30 PIN SIMM (pronounced one by nine)
1x8 - a 1MB 30 PIN SIMM for a MAC
4x9 - a 4MB 30 PIN SIMM

72 Pin (multiply the first number by 4 to get size):
2x32 - 8MB SIMM
4x32 - 16MB SIMM

if it's EDO or ECC, the last number becomes 36
therefore:

2x36 - 8MB ECC
4x36 - 16MB ECC

With SIMMS its the same, but multiply by 8, with standard ram being by 64 and ECC being by 72. I have no experience with RIMMS so for these you're on your own. I bring this up because common practice is to write 'I have 2 eight MB SIMMS as 2x8MB. Easy to confuse.

Also, EDO ram is different from fast page because it has an extra data trace running of the individual memory chips. Though I once knew what this transmited, I seem to have forgoten. I do remember that it makes the ram about 1-2% faster than the normal fast page.

ECC and Parity are error correction technologies. With Parity, your RAM transmits a series of bits like 10001001. It then adds these numbers up (in this case 3) and determines whether it is even or odd (in this case odd). If it is even it adds a zero on the end of the chain, if it's odd it adds a 1. Once the computer recieves the chain, it does the same thing. If it's 'parity bit' and the rams 'parity bit' don't match up, the computer requests that the ram sends the data again.

This is fine for correcting simple problems, but can't catch some more complex ones. Say, for instance, the stream is suposed to be 110, the ram would send '1100'. However, if there are two errors, and the stream the computer recieves is '1010' it will see that the parity bit is correct and not ask for a resend. Because of this, they came up with ECC, or Error Correcting Code. This uses a more complex algorathim which I never bothered to find out about, but is more reliable than Parity.

Generally, with parity and ECC, you trade off a little bit of speed for alot of reliability and some cost. For the most part, you tend to see these technologies more often in 'mision critical' situations, things like servers.

 

Sorry man. I do still have the SIMMS, but have absolutely no clue what kind they are. I had it written down at one point, but not anymore. It doesn't appear to say on the ram itself whether it is fastpage or edo, and hell if I remember. I do know they are 32MB each, but that's about it.

 

If you go to Lightspeed, we have a memory tester there -- it's just a little box with memory slots, and it'll test it and tell you what it is. Just drop on by and ask to use it. They're cool with it.

It's at 5302 Bellaire Blvd.

 

Thanks, man, but that's about 200 miles out of my way.

 

Well, I've tried to stay out of tech support threads, but damn...

DREAMer,

First of all, let me say that I threw away about 128 MB of EDO SIMMs about 3 months ago because I had no use for them and couldn't give the things away... had I known, I would have given them to you for free.

Secondly, good quality EDO RAM (as opposed to low-level generic stuff) can probably be had for around $50 for a 32 MB stick. You can find it for $30 for a 32 MB stick as well, but that's usually lower-end RAM that may or may not work with your PC and usually sold by companies over the Internet that I can't say I'd trust.

Third. Check it out :

New mobo capable of supporting an AMD Duron : ~$65-90
New AMD Duron 750 : ~$30-45
New case with 300W power supply : ~$30-$60
New stick of 128MB RAM (high quality Micron RAM) : ~$19
A Voodoo3 AGP video card : I'll give you one free.

That's about $165-$200 (including shipping) for damn-near a new system. If you can foot the bill for this, I'd rather spend this than $50-$150 for ancient technology EDO RAM that you'll throw out the window when you get a new system. Some places online sell the Duron/motherboard combo for around $100 if you want to go that route and maybe save another $20-$30 or so.

Anyway, just a suggestion, if you can save up the money.

 

Windows 2000 beats the living s#it out of ME...

I crash about once or twice a month at the most... Stability is its middle name... I multi-task like crazy and it runs like a beauty...