I'm not saying they're poor at evalutating talent, simply that they're not the miracle workers that some of you seem to take them for. Sam Cassell was a good player. Rodrick Rhodes was a dismal failure. Other teams have found gems in the 2nd round as well. Here are a few 2nd round players that you might not suspect: Clifford Robinson, Toni Kukoc, Cedric Ceballos, Bryon Russell, Jeff Hornacek, Van Exel etc... Others, like Ray Allen and Michael Finley, were drafted late in the first round. The rockets, like most teams, have their share of busts (Turkcan) and gems (Cassell). Let's not praise the Rockets for skills that don't exist... and then be upset when they can't deliver. [This message has been edited by haven (edited January 19, 2000).]
Ray Allen was drafted 5th in the first round and then traded for the 4th pick, Stephon Marbury. That's pretty high first round. How is Turkcan a bust when he never even got a chance to develop under Rudy, or even play for him? What exactly is your point with the examples of other late pick gems? Noone claimed that Rudy is the only guy who has drafted late round wonders. You can give examples all day but it is irrelevant. It's like saying Hakeem is not a superstar because Jordan, Malone, and Barkley were. [This message has been edited by thacabbage (edited January 19, 2000).]
ray allen was the 5th pick in the draft taken by the t'wolves and then traded to milwaukee for marbury who was taken the previous pick...i would hardly call that late in the 1st round... since we received a yet to be determined 1st round pick for turckan, i would hesitate to call that a bust...trading turckan was a move necessary (cap-wise) to enable the acquisition of pippen...i suspect that if that pick were lewis, he may have been traded as well...
DaMan, thecabbage and DaDakota...y'all were all just a little faster on the return key than me...hard to type fast with a broken wrist
I would also point to guys like Recasner, E. Davis, Randy Livingston, and Matt Maloney. No, they are not stars but they are guys that Rudy gave a shot to and they are now on NBA rosters making good livings. I'm sure there are others.
First off, I wouldn't know if Rudy and CD are drafting geniuses, but they have done remarkably better than any other team within their time. Compare any drafts to the Rocks. You'll see what I mean. Let's not praise the Rockets for skills that don't exist... and then be upset when they can't deliver. I'm sorry but was I ever upset with the picks? I questioned why they picked kenny for example and now realize we have another gem. Rudy is like me and takes the big risks. You know the saying, "The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward." Sometimes they bust but when they succeed you look like a genius. Plus, what the hell do you except of a low pick? Vince Carter? You know nothing is expected of them. We'll I might be upset if they don't deliever but it hasn't happened as of yet.
How can you call Rhodes a bust? He played fairly well for a guy we picked up as the 24th pick, IMO. Point is, guys that are drafted late in the first round or in the second round cannot be classified as busts if they don't make it big simply because many of them don't even make it in the NBA. Fact is, the Rockets often make very good decisions in the first round. Name one other team in the NBA which has drafted such players as the Rockets have with late picks in the draft. The Lakers is one team that is close behind, but I can't think of any more. ------------------ Francis+Charles+Dream-Pippen= Rockets 2000 NBA Champions
Whoops... you're certainly right about Ray Allen. Ack! Why don't you just add Vlade Divac to the list instead? He was selected 26th... two after Rhodes. I'm not saying CD and Rudy are BAD scouts. I simply think that most franchises (with the notable exceptions of places like Dallas, all have about the same caliber of analysts. Occasionally, everyone looks like a genius, and occasionally everyone looks like a dupe.
I don't know how you can't call Rodrick Rhodes a bust. He only lasted in the league for 2 years. that's a shorter career than Dave Jamerson.
Genius or no, he's done damn well. And how can you neglect his ability to get a lottery pick in Francis without actually having to be in the lottery? (That's another shot against all of you still hoping the Rox suck enough to draft in the lottery) What's the point in arguing about how good he is or not? Suffice it to say he's done GOOD. ------------- Hey Pippin! Easter Island wants their head back!
Anybody remember Othella and Cat in the second rounds. And how about Kenny Thomas in last years draft. ------------------ Fuggetabout it
Houston is average when it comes to drafting talent. In regards to late-round picks, Sam Cassell has been the only great player they have drafted. (Any team can draft service-able players.) Utah drafts very well with their picks.
The Rockets, since Rudy took over the drafts, have definitely been one of the top 5 drafting teams in the NBA (Utah, Phoenix, LA are up there). I've counted 7 drafts that Rudy's been in charge of (Robert Horry was the first, one year we had no pick). I know we haven't even had a first-round pick in some of those drafts, and we've always drafted late except for Horry and a couple of years ago when we had those 3 mid-first round picks. In those 7 drafts, we've come away with at least 7 solid NBA players to show for it, some could, will eventually, or have started on very good teams: Horry, Cassell, Harrington, Mobley, Dickerson, Thomas, and Drew. That's an average of one quality player a year, and I'd be willing to bet our average pick, when you factor in that we didn't have a first-round choice every year, is in the 20s. Occasionally someone will pluck a Cliff Robinson or Joe Dumars, but it's all about consistency. Name me some other teams that can come away with a solid contributor every year with picks that low. Add in the fact that we parlayed some of those low picks into what looks like is going to be one of the best players to ever play, and it makes it that much more impressive. [This message has been edited by TheFreak (edited January 20, 2000).]
Since the person who started this thread can't scream dump Rudy cuase he stinks as a coach theme right now, they fall back on the ,hey these guys can't draft players theme. How weak. Just admit it, you just don't LIKE Rudy. By the way, please list your teams that have done a better job of drafting then the Rockets for the past 5 years.
With the Rockets, Rudy's made chicken salad out of chicken s**t. They've had consistently low 1st round picks (if they had a first rounder at all) ever since Horry was drafted. Name a player in this league who was drafted later than Othella or Cassell who's done more. Then I might begin to see your point. The fact is, Horry, Cassell, Harrington, Livingston, Recasner, Brown and the countless others that have come through have provided solid role playing efforts. If the Rockets had higher picks, they might have more of the 'premiere' players in the league playing for them. But, they haven't had those picks, so Rudy's dealt well with what he's had.
Rockets (Horry, Cassell, MD, Mobley, Thomas were fine-to-great picks, Maloney and Recasner were good finds as well) and the Lakers (Van Exel, Jones, Kobe, Fisher, Knight) have been the best at drafting (or immediately trading for) good players late in the draft. Maybe they are not geniuses, but they have done extremely well, especially given draft placement. Utah may have had a couple of decent picks, but they haven’t had near the hit rate of the other two, I would say Phoenix has been better than them as well.
I think they've done a good job but let's review anyway: 1992: drafted Robert Horry (11) should have drafed Latrell Sprewell (24) drafted Popeye Jones (41) should have drafted Matt Geiger (42) 1993: drafted Sam Cassell (24) perfect pick. drafted Richard Petruska (46) should have drafted Bo Outlaw (undrafted) 1994: drafted Albert Burditt (55) no notable undrafted players 1995: drafted Erik Meek (41) should have drafted Eric Snow (43) or Matt Maloney (undrafted) or John Amaechi (undrafted) 1996: drafted Othella Harrington (30) perfect pick. drafted Randy Livingston (42) should have drafted Malik Rose (44). drafted Terrell Bell (50) should have drafted Shandon Anderson (54) or Adrian Griffin (undrafted) 1997: drafted Rodrick Rhodes (24) should have drafted Jacque Vaughn (27), drafted Serge Zwikker (30) should have drafted Cedric Henderson (44) 1998: drafted Michael Dickerson (14) perfect pick. drafted Bryce Drew (16) should have drafted Rashard Lewis (32). drafted Mirsad Turkcan (18) should have drafted Ruben Patterson (31) or Tyrone Nesby (undrafted). drafted Cuttino Mobley (41) perfect pick 1999: drafted Kenny Thomas (22) solid pick. drafted Tyrone Washington (44) should have drafted Eddie Robinson (undrafted), drafted Venson Hamilton (50) might be a good pick.
