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RPM and the rockets

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Air Langhi, Apr 7, 2014.

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  1. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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  2. torocan

    torocan Member

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    Very interesting.

    Wish they provided the actual formulas. I would really like to see the assumptions, regressions and variables they are including, especially as you look further down the list.

    RPM net negative players...

    #37 Rajon Rondo
    #39 Kyrie Irving
    #43 Jeff Teague
    #45 Ramon Sessions
    #47 Darren Collison
    #56 Jose Calderon
    #60 Norris Cole
    #69 Jarret Jack
    #73 Isiah Canaan
    #75 Aaron Brooks

    Ho boy... that will get some folks hot. :)

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/1
     
  3. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

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    Overall rank
    #3 Iguodala
    #6 Nick Collsion
    #13 Chris Andersen
    #14 Beverley


    [​IMG]
     
  4. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Rondo fans?
     
  5. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    I just wanted to say I love your sig. I can think of a few around here on CFs that really need to sit back and think on it. (not in reference to anyone in this thread)
     
  6. spacepimp

    spacepimp Contributing Member

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    All the players above are and hustle a D players, every team need these guys. Iguodala is better defender and playmaker than Barnes, Collision gives you better overall D then Perkins, Chris Andersen allows Bosh to play PF, and give you post D, and Beverly tenacity and 3pt shooting. Plus all these players do not need the ball in their hands, which give the superstar more possession.
     
  7. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

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    All true, but do those things make them top 15 in the league?

    I think these rankings are interesting because they may help point out some people who are over and under rated, but I'm not going to take them at face value.
     
  8. felixng2012

    felixng2012 Member

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    Take note that its a minute based stat. So guys who play limited minutes will benefit from this stat especially hustle guys since they have a lot of impact on the defensive end per minute but on the flip side they can only have that much impact because they can afford to expend more energy(only play limited minutes).

    Overall, its not the only stat you should look at but you can say the same for every other stat. You use it in conjunction with other stats.

    In terms of wins added (RAPM + minutes played)...here are the most productive players in the league..

    1 LeBron James,
    2 Kevin Durant,
    3 Stephen Curry,
    4 Chris Paul,
    5 Kevin Love,
    6 Dirk Nowitzki,
    7 DeAndre Jordan,
    8 Andre Iguodala,
    9 Blake Griffin,
    10 LaMarcus Aldridge,
    11 Tim Duncan,
    12 Ricky Rubio,
    13 Kyle Lowry,
    14 Goran Dragic,

    Seems pretty accurate. CP3 is 4th since he only played a paltry 59 games. DJ has been great this season and his WAR is a bit inflated since he doesn't miss games and plays heavy minutes. Rubio is really valuable for the Wolves defensively but his lack of scoring limits his offensive impact.
     
  9. felixng2012

    felixng2012 Member

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    The only one that surprises me is Darren Collison. Irving is a mediocre facilitator and can't guard a garbage can. Rondo is coming off an injury and can't score for crap. Calderon=**** defender, etc.

    But yea you don't only use this stat by itself obviously or base everything off this stat alone.
     
  10. ForTheWinYes

    ForTheWinYes Member

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    I wonder who Morey thinks is more valuable to the team between Parsons and Beverley.
     
  11. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I dont know how a stat that puts so many variables into their formula (like quality of player you are playing with, and quality of player you are matching up with) without having major issues & discrepancies.


    If I had to guess on what the purpose of this stat is-

    To me it seems like the whole point of this stat is to show who is most effective in their role. So if you are a superstar scorer, it shows how good the team is with you in that role, and if you are a defensive stopper guard, it shows how good the team is with you in that role.
     
  12. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

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    That list is better. To me, though, the more interesting thing is why does the metric like AI, DJ, and Rubio so much. How much are those guys underrated conventionally and/or overrated statistically? DJ at #7... he's 9th in minutes, but only 1 guy ahead of him is on that list, so that's not the reason.
     
  13. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Probably depends on which position and role he thinks is more important. You'd have to think that based on this teams' needs surrounding their stars, the difficulty of finding a replacement player for that position & cost, that Parsons would be more valuable.

    Finding guys who have the size Parsons has with the offensive talent, ball-handling, decision making/intellect on the floor, defensive ability to guard multiple positions, passing, shooting, slashing, etc. has to be pretty hard.

    I think if you have to choose one, you choose Parsons, and role the dice finding another PG somewhere else.
     
  14. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Iguodala has helped the Warriors go from an average defense to the best defense that still has an offense (i.e. CHi and Ind don't count). He is a top 20 player in my opinion.

    Rubio gets his stats inflated as Minnesota can destroy weak teams with him in there. His +/- stats get a little inflated out of these few events.

    Jordan...+/- stats have a tough time with causation and correlation sometimes. The high WAR makes me think I may be undervaluing him, but I don't his true value is as high as WAR. As with almost any stat or eye ball test, it needs to be taken into context.

    Beverley is in the perfect place for him and his WAR probably reflects fit with Harden and Howard.
     
  15. TTNN

    TTNN Member

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    I'd think it is still derived from +/- anyway, thus in a winning team would for sure help it, and in a losing team, would hurt it. Especially player who play long minutes.

    On the other hand, I'm curious how they adjust and weight the numbers too. And I'm not sure how much variation that is when you take a personal average and apply that weight on each individual player, and looking at number of 1 or 2 points out of it. Not sure how much of a APM of 3 compare to the variation of the data though.
     
  16. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    The numbers are clear....
     
  17. playdo

    playdo Member

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    All Players RPM Ranking
    #14 Patrick Beveley 4.57 (Wow I thought James Harden would have the highest ranking out of Houston)
    #21 Dwight Howard 3.99
    #33 James Harden 3.44
    #53 Omer Asik 2.67
    #90 Chandler Parsons 1.58
    #118 Donatas Motiejunas 0.84
    #139 Jeremy Lin 0.36
    #213 Greg Smith -1.19
    #232 Francisco Garcia -1.41
    #233 Terrence Jones -1.42
     
  18. DOLPHIN2k2

    DOLPHIN2k2 Member

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    Awesome, SAS should be knocking at the HOU front office door begging for a Parker for Bev trade any minute now.
     
  19. CantGoLeft

    CantGoLeft Member

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    Small sample size of 28 games, but Rondo has sucked on D this year coming back from major injury and playing without Garnett for the first time since his rookie year. For the first time in his career he has a team worst DefRtg which is (-5.4) worse than the team DefRtg.
     
  20. jtr

    jtr Contributing Member

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    And that was always the problem with Rondo. How does one assess how good he is playing next to HOF players? As I expected he is sucking without them. Big surprise. And a lesson that should be learned by fans. Including some prominent ones on this site.
     

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