Rockets Future Lineup (Griff's a 3 not a 4)

Yeah I'd like to see Griffin at the 3 and not at the 4 or 5 which some people have presented as a scenario. I think he isn't bulky enough to play at those positions.

 

Griffin in 19 freaking years old. He is still growing, and will spend years in the weight room. In my opinion, Griffin is definitely a 4/5 who will create matchup problems for years to come with his ability to drain 3 pointers.

Griffin is going to be Sam Perkins on offense, and Theo Ratliff on defense.

 

I believe our future 3 is Terence Morris, although Mo might move there next year, with Rice coming off the bench. I bet if we started Morris, like we did Griffin, that he would come up with similar success. It should be an interesting logjam... someone will probably get traded for a better 5, unless Griffin grows a couple more inches and becomes our future center. That would be the best of all worlds, in my opinion...

Griffin/Willis/Cato
Taylor/KT/Collier
Morris/Rice/Langhi
Mobely/Torres/Brown
Francis/Norris

 

I'm hoping that, when Francis and KT come back, the Rocks go with a lineup of:



C - Cato (Starting to earn his pay...well, not really )

PF - Griffin (Could be the start of something special, you have to like his activity)

SF\PF - KT (Ball-handling and quickness make KT a valuable combo F)

SG - Cat (The happiest Rocket of them all when Franchise comes back)

PG - Francis (HE'S BAAA-AAACK!!)



I'm still hoping that the Rocks start making a serious effort to start running, and putting Eddie and Kenny on the floor together could really give the Rocks a boost on the boards i.e. more opportunities to run.

What has really impressed me the past 2 games is not how many points Eddie's scoring, but how he's scoring them. Yeah, the 3s are nice, but he's also getting putbacks off offensive boards(OH YEAH!!), he's run the pick and ROLL, and has even tried to put the ball on the floor a bit. He's finding ways to contribute.

 

Kevin Garnett is not a 3.

I originally thought that Eddie would turn out to be a 3 also, but it's extremely obvious that he won't. He hasn't played one minute there all year. Eddie said himself in interviews over the summer that he was a 4, and it's obvious Rudy agrees. Let's go over some things.

1. One of Eddie's great strengths, especially at this young age, is the ease in which he can block shots of penetrators. We really need that presence on this team, because it's obvious Cato doesn't and will not bring it. Almost all SF's in the league start from the outside, and thus you'd be bringing EG away from the basket. Bad idea. Along the same lines, Eddie is our best rebounder also. How is he supposed to crash the boards from 20 feet away?

2. Eddie has played the post his entire life, and one of his biggest strengths is his one on one defense. Even though he's skinny, he has his timing down on shot blocks, and as a whole he has a feel for the position. At every level he's played on he's been regarded as a very good defender. Why would you want to totally change him to the perimeter, where the style of defense is totally different? A small forward's defense depends on lateral quickness, foot speed, etc. Some of those things are used in the post, but it's a totally different game. You're making Eddie's shot blocking threat totally useless if you throw him out on the perimeter. And you're also asking him to go away from what's made him the player he is today.

3. Offensively, a small forward on this team needs to be able to handle the ball. Here's an example. Rice is standing in the corner at about the three point line. Cuttino takes his man off the dribble, and forces a double team. Rice is left open. Cuttino gives him the ball, and someone flies right at Rice. Rice fakes it, takes a couple of dribbles inside, and then takes the open shot. Do you really feel comfortable with Eddie doing that? Big small forwards can work in the NBA, but I seriously doubt that it would in this offense. In addition to shooting, our small forward needs to be able to take it off the dribble and pass, both of which are not Eddie's strengths.

I don't see why everyone is so obsessed with starting Kelvin Cato at center. Can any of you make a legit case for this? I don't care what his size is, he plays about a foot smaller. I would feel much more comfortable starting Walt Williams, Eddie Griffin, or Kenny Thomas at center. They may not have the ideal size, but at least they show effort and hustle. With Cato, you're basically playing 4 on 5 on both ends of the floor. The majority of the time I don't even realize that he's on the floor. Eddie should be starting at center now, when Kenny comes back. He may not be the bulkiest player, but is there anything Cato can do that Eddie can't?

Future lineup:

Griffin/Cato/Collier
Taylor/Thomas/Morris
Rice/Torres/Thomas/Morris
Mobley/Torres
Francis/Norris/Brown

 

I agree with the CAT, Griffin is our future 5. He will GROW and fit this position perfectly. Why would anyone want Cato to start anywhere?! I wouldn't even want him to start my mower! Size and skills mean nothing, if your head and heart are not into the game.

 

I don't think EG is a 3 OR a 5. The more I think about it, the more I believe he'll be an excellent 4.

Right now he has a good look for a 3, but as it's been said before, he's only 19 and the Rockets believe he's gonna fill out that 6'9-6'10 frame in the not-so-distant future. So for right now, sure he's a tempting fit for one of our weaknesses (SF), but that's just like putting duct tape on a leaky hose.

Another weakness of the Rockets is the center position, but again you can't just throw talent at the position and hope it works. At this point, I just can't see EG battling down low with Shaq, Mutombo, The Admiral (or Duncan), or hell even Vlade. Cato can ... when he remembers he's a big body. I think we'd be too small with a lineup of:
Griffin
MoT/KT
Rice/Wiz
Mobley
Francis

EG will make an excellent PF. The only problem with that is we already have 2 solid PFs in MoT & KT. It looks like we have a log-jam at the 4, and it's a shame that when they're all healthy it's unlikely we'll find a way to put all 3 of them on the court effectively at the same time. 'Cause personally I'm a fan of all 3.

 

If we would just label these guys frontcourt and backcourt players only, we could avoid the squabbling about designations of 2,3,4, and 5!! Happy New Year...

 

Mo Taylor plays more like a 3 then Griffen. The Rockets should ask Taylor to slim down and play the 3.

Future lineup:
C: Someone picked from our high draft pick/Cato/Willis
PF: Griffen/Thomas
SF: Taylor/Rice
SG: Mobley/Torres
PG: Francis/Mooch

I don't care how much Griffen bulks up, I don't want him playing center full time. The guy plays like a 4. He has the perfect size to play a 4. He's seems most comfortable at the 4. That's where he should stay. As a center he probably would be decent, but the power forward position is where he belongs and where I think he will excel most. I think it's just a matter of would you rather have a Marcus Camby center or a Kevin Garnett power forward. I prefer the latter.

 

word, The Cat.

and word, RichRocket.

I don't give 2 sh!ts about a piss which number you give him. just put him down low!

the blocks, the rebounds, the low-post offense. . . that is what this team NEEDS.

ever since we got stevie, I have looked at the late 80s Pistons as our championship model. before the Bulls, they were the only team to win a title since the 70s without a really strong center.

they had the 3 guards: zeke, dumars and the microwave. we've got that covered: franchise, cat and the mooch.

they had a bunch of long, lean, revved-motor guys: rodman, salley, somebody else I can't remember. here, we come up short. we don't have the rangy defense and rebound guys. kenny, kind of. griff is definitely this way. but we need more of this, I think.

of course, they had the big, ugly, 3-pt. bombing bill laimbeer. maybe collier will become this. I don't know. I sort of doubt it.

but here is the real reason I bring them up. . . the pistons struggled to get over the hump until they made a trade for one guy: mark aguirre.

now, aguirre was only like 6'8", maybe a little taller, maybe even shorter. but what did aguirre bring the pistons? trust me, it wasn't his defense. it was his LOW-POST GAME. he used that big old butt of his better than anyone except for barkley. yes, aguirre had range, but aguirre gave the pistons a legitimate low-post scoring threat. and not just a threat, but a serious weapon.

this is what I'd like to see griff evolve into. like aguirre, griff can hit from long range. but we need defenses to fear what he can do down low. it will make everything easier for all the rest.

no matter what number-position you give him.

by the way, I like very much the young nucleus of our team:

franchise
mobley
norris
torres
morris
thomas
taylor
griffin

these 8 guys are keepers. if we could add ming to this group, ALL they would need would be time. [sorry for the tangent]

 

This is an odd outline of history, imo. If you call downing the 1987-88 Celtics 4-2 for the East Conf Championship and losing to the Lakers the hump?? that you need to get over, then I guess this kinda works. The Pistons steadily improved. The differeence in Aguirre vs Dantely was a key, but less so that the steady improvement of Dumars (the Finals MVP), Salley and Rodman.

Also, if you call Aguirre bringing low post game with a big butt to Detriot, then how do you describe Adrian Dantley? Barkley was frequently compared to Dantley, not Aguirre. Dantley indeed was a leader in free throw attempts each year.

The difference was Aguirre's shooting over Dantley's methodical Barkley-butt ball. Aguirre made the team faster and more lively. Dantley brought the better low post game, and Dantley brought the better team leadership...Dumars and Salley both considered him their mentor.

imo, Griffin to Aguirre can be a valid comparison. But the way you describe it is historically skewed to make your comparison. The Aguirre/Dantley trade is probably one of the most important trades of all time. Dantley was very important to the Pistons, and no one could really say how that trade was going to affect the defending East Conf champs. Some lockerroom chemistry was lost, but some court chemistry was gained. They become a more up-tempo offense, because Aguirre did not clog the low post like Dantley.

 

I really don't think it's possible to have that many guys in a nucleus. A nucleus is 2 or 3 good to great players...such as Shaq and Kobe, or Steve, Cuttino, and Eddie. You have your nucleus and then you build around them with solid role players. Norris, Torres, Morris, Thomas, and Taylor will hopefully be those solid role players, but they certainly aren't a nucleus. Usually any player that is tradeable is not part of a nucleus of a team.

 

Has Morris even proved himself worthy of an NBA roster spot this season? He might work out, but I think it's important to remember:

1. He sucked as a senior
2. He hasn't done anything this year. And he'd be getting more minutes if he were playing well in practice.

Why does everyone just assume he'll succeed? Second rounders fail more often than not.

 

Yea, but he's a Rudy second rounder. That's got to give him an edge.

 

I agree with the suggestion that we forget about the number designations especially in Rudy T's system. I would put both guys in at forward. On defense I want EG as the PF, if you know what I mean and they are interchangeable on offense.

Cato should continue to be our starting 5 and I would reintroduce Collier in to the picture. He is a good shooter and offensively he would help offset the limitations of Cato. I remember last year he was considered a good runner and shooter. Our execution of the pick and roll has improved and with him we could see greater success knocking down that jumper.

Willis would backup at the 4, a position he has played most of his career. On defense, I like him against the 4's in the league.

C....Cato 28......Collier.....15.....Willis 5
PF..Griffin 30.....Willis 10 Thomas 8
SF..Thomas 25...Walt 15 Morris 8
PG..Francis 33....Moochie 15
OG..Mobley.33....Torres 15

The rotation is 11 which is needed for a really run and gun team. When Rice returns, Walt's minutes will be his but that will be after he has proven that he is definitely ready.

 

yeah, you're right to call me on that. to be honest, I completely forgot about AD. as I was typing it, I was trying to remember who the mavs got for aguirre, and I couldn't remember. . .

BUT. I think the point I was ultimately trying to make is still valid, and that is: the Rockets need a low-post scorer.

and I think both dantley and aguirre were better low-post scorers than anyone currently on the rockets.

it's great that eddie can shoot 3s, but I think he'll be helping this team a lot more when he can set up on the low block and flip hooks in all night, a la mchale, until the defense has to collapse on him.

despite my historical amnesia, my point is a fairly straightforward one. don't care what number you give him, just make sure EG is tearing up the club down low.

maybe yes, maybe no. . .

I see what you're saying, and I can kind of agree. clearly, there's a line of demarcation in terms of the worth between the big 3 and the rest. my point is that they should hold onto those other names I listed. I think they each bring something potentially valuable to the team. if you add a LARGE defensive and rebounding presence to those names I listed, and give them time to grow and mature, I believe that's a squad that can win a title.

that's why I called them a nucleus. where you cut off your nucleus number is really kind of arbitrary. my point is: hold on to those guys.

 

unfortunately, I don't think collier will ever be able to stay healthy. no one can know that for sure, but for him to have this many health concerns for as young as he is, it doesn't look good. I don't think the rockets should depend on him for anything. if he's healthy, give him a few minutes a night, see if anything comes of it, but don't figure him into your long-term plans.

 

I think EG will play 4/5 but mainly 4. He'll be awesome. KT will get traded. I like KT but I don't see him staying unless he moves over to 3 and shares that with TMO.

Given the opportunity....I think TMO will still be the steal of the draft.

The future is bright for our Rockets even though we stink right now.

Lineup in 2-3 Years

XXX/XXX---Center
Griffin/Taylor---Power Forward
Thomas/Morris---Small Forward
Mobley/Torres---Shooting Guard
Francis/Norris---Point Guard

I think we'll find a better center than either Cato or Collier soon....Hell even Ike would have been an improvement. I don't see Cato or Collier being in a Rock uniform in 2-3 years. Langhi will also be cut at the end of this year. Williams will be traded or released at some point.

Tierre Brown will develop into a nice backup but not necessarily in Houston. He has a lot of potential in the few games I've seen.

That my crystal ball for today.

 

I think one reason (and maybe the biggest reason why) people look at EG as a 3 is because from what I have seen, I have primarily seen him camped out at the 3 point line, 20 feet away from the basket . It would be great if he played more down low on offense, but it seems like either he or Rudy or both feel more comfortable with him shooting outside.

Kenny Thomas used to be able to hit a 3 every once in a while, but he's not even close this season. You need your starting 3 to be a good outside shooter & let's face it folks, KT is not a great outside shooter.

I think another reason why people would want to classify EG as a 3 is because of his size (his weight). I understand that he could still grow even taller & he has to put on some weight, but right now, he does not have the physical size, IMO, to bang with the Duncans, McDyesses, and Malones on a 82 game basis. But this should come.

However, with this team, why worry about positions?

When Francis comes back, the 5 best players, regardless of position, that must be on the floor for us to win would have to be:

Francis
Mobley
Torres
Griffin
Thomas

Some of you may crucify me for having an essentially "3 guard" line-up, but OT is definitely a better option at the so-called "3" then any of our other guys like Rice, TMo and the Wizard. I realize with this line-up that EG would be matched up the majority of the time with the opposing team's center, but really I think he may be better off going against centers than power forwards.

However, I think that with this line-up, it might be best to mix up the defenses a little bit and play some zone.

When Mo Taylor comes back, move KT to the bench and have him as the 6th man.