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Rockets at Suns 1st quarter breakdown

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Kim, Mar 14, 2007.

  1. Kim

    Kim Member

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    Rockets Half Court Offense
    T-Mac
    2/8 shooting (4pts), 1 shooting foul drawn (0/2 FT), 5 shots created for others (3/5 for 6pts), 1 TO
    shooting breakdowns
    Quality: 2/3 HQ shots, 0/5 MQ shots
    Distance: 1/2 inside, 1/6 midrange
    Type: 1/4 Pullup J's, 0/1 floater, 0/1 CnS, 1/2 dunks n layups

    Yao
    0/2 shooting, 1 shooting foul drawn (2/2 FT), 2 shots created for others (2/2 for 4pts), 1 TO
    shooting breakdowns
    Quality: 0/1 MQ, 0/1 LQ
    Distance: 0/2 close range
    Type: 0/2 left hooks

    Chuck Hayes
    2/3 shooting (4pts)
    Quality: 1/1 HQ, 1/1 MQ, 0/1 LQ
    Distance: 2/2 inside, 0/1 close range
    Type: 2/2 dunks n layups, 0/1 rt hook

    Rafer Alston
    0/3 overall
    0/3 MQ
    0/1 inside, 0/2 long range
    0/1 layups, 0/2 CnS

    Luther Head
    1/2 overall (2 pts)
    0/1 HQ, 1/1 MQ
    1/1 close range, 0/1 long range
    1/1 floater, 0/1 CnS

    Juwon Howard
    2/2 overall (4 pts)
    2/2 HQ
    2/2 midrange
    2/2 CnS

    Half Court Offense Totals: 24 possessions = 16 pts
    7/20 shooting (14pts), 2 fouls drawn (2/4 fts), 2 TO
    5/7 HQ, 2/11 MQ, 0/2 LQ
    3/5 inside, 1/4 close, 3/8 midrange, 0/3 longrange
    3/5 DunksNLayups, 0/3 Hooks, 4/12 Jumpers (1/4 PuJ, 1/2 floater, 2/6 CnS)

    Transition Offense 2 possessions = 4 pts
    1 shooting foul drawn by CH (2/2 fts), TM pass
    1/1 CH HQ layup, SB pass

    Half court Defense Stats
    Yao
    3/6 for 6 pts overall, 1 anticipation steal
    type of defense: 0/2 straight, 2/3 none, 1/1 help
    quality: 0/1 LQ, 1/2 MQ, 2/3 HQ
    distance: 0/1 inside, 1/2 close, 2/3 mid
    type of shot: 0/1 FuJ, 1/2 CnS, 0/1 Layup, 1/1 Rhook, 1/1 runner

    T-Mac
    3/3 for 6 pts
    ToD: 1/1 recovering, 2/2 none
    1/1 MQ, 2/2 HQ
    1/1 inside, 1/1 mid, 1/1 long
    1/1 CnS, 1/1 PuJ, 1/1 layup

    Chuck Hayes
    0/2 overall, 1 charge taken (rotating D)
    0/1 straight, 0/1 rotate
    0/1 LQ, 0/1 HQ
    0/1 inside, 0/1 close
    0/1 turnaround J, 0/1 layup

    Dikembe Mutombo
    2/2 for 4 pts, 1 Def 3 seconds tech for 1pt, 5 pts total
    1/1 recovering, 1/1 none
    1/1 MQ, 1/1 HQ
    2/2 midrange
    1/1 FuJ, 1/1 CnS

    Rafer Alston
    1/2 for 3 pts
    1/1 recovering, 0/1 none
    1/1 MQ, 0/1 HQ
    1/2 longrange
    1/2 CnS

    Shane Battier
    1/2 for 2 pts
    1/2 straight
    0/1 LQ, 1/1 HQ
    1/2 inside
    1/2 layups

    Juwon Howard
    1/1 for 2pts
    1/1 straight
    1/1 LQ
    1/1 inside
    1/1 layups

    Halfcourt Defense Totals 22 possessions = 25 pts
    11/18 (2/3 treys) + 1ft for 25 pts, 4 TO (2 unforced)
    2/6 straight, 5/7 none, 3/3 recover, 1/1 help, 0/1 rotate
    6/9 HQ, 4/5 MQ, 1/4 LQ
    3/6 inside, 1/3 close, 5/6 mid, 2/3 long
    3/6 layups, 1/1 RHook, 7/11 Jumpers (4/6 CnS, 1/1 PuJ, 1/2 FuJ, 0/1 Turnaround J, 1/1 runner)

    Transition Defense 4 possessions = 5 pts, 2 TO (1 unforced)
    3 on 3: SM and LB run to corners, D inside, LB 1/1 HQ CnS z10-BD pass, BD pt
    3 on 3: SN pt, pass to LB z10 dr left by SB, 1/1 MQ layup under CH help
    4 on 4: SN unforced bad pass upcourt
    4 on 5: SN pass to AS left side, SB forces TO, AS lost ball

    Rebounding
    The way I track rebounds is that nobody gets credit for doing their job. I make notes of missed box outs and Battle Boards. Battle Boards are 50/50 bounces that are up for grabs. So even if someone gets an offensive rebound that bounced right to them, I'm not going to note that as a missed box out.
    Boris Diaw 1 off BB win vs Hayes, 1 def BB win vs Yao
    Yao Ming 1 off BB win vs Diaw, 1 off BB win vs Amare
    Barbosa 1 off reb (Battier missed box out)
     
    #1 Kim, Mar 14, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2007
  2. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Wow, I can't imagine how much effort must have gone into compiling that data. I tried to do something similar (not as detailed) just concetrating on the defensive end for the first 5 or 6 games of the season. It was too time consuming for me.

    This is some really good stuff. How do you define HQ, MQ, and LQ shots? I'd imagine that's pretty subjective and depends on the player.
     
  3. Kim

    Kim Member

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    Glossary

    Types of Shots
    CnS - Catch and Shoot
    FuJ - Face up Jumper (holds, then rises for shot)
    PuJ - Pull up Jumper (involves at least 1 dribble)
    Fade J - Fadeaway Jumper
    SJ - Spinning Jumper (cw/clockwise or ccw/counter clockwise)
    Floater - shot released moving forward, usually 1 handed
    Layup
    Dunk
    Hook
    Alleyoop - rate the quality of pass and quality of situation (ex 2 on 0 fast break is HQ)

    Plays Terminology
    PnR - Pick and Rolls
    PnF - Pick and Fades (PleftFrt is Pick left Fade right)
    P - just plain pick
    oba - off ball action

    Shot Created:
    Not all assists means that the player created that shot. To me, shots created is more important than assists. If Yao is doubled down low and kicks it out to the open man, who swings it because the defense is rotating and the next guy nails an open 3pter, the creation of the shot is credited to Yao, which is a truer indicator than the who the assist goes to.

    Fouls:
    Recovering D, Straight D, Help D, Rotating D
    Usually occur on Low Q shots, but sometimes a Mid Q, rarely High Q

    Transition Defense:
    Just because the shot was taken quickly (like under 10 seconds) doesn't mean it was a transition situation, because if all 5 defenders are set, then it's half court defense. Also, sometimes up to 15 seconds has run off the game clock between buckets because ref is holding the ball or something, but it was still a transition basket because everyone on D was standing around and not set when the bucket is scored.

    Quality of Shot:
    [​IMG]
    Low Quality, Medium Quality, High Quality
    HQ is easy to tell because it is unblockable and wide open. Most LQ shots are easy to tell because the defender is straight up and tight on the offensive player. Determining the main difference between a LQ and MQ shot depends mostly on verticality of the defender. The further back a defender is, the more room there is to shoot and the easier it is to see the basket. The end result will usually show a defender being slanted as he is challenging the shot. That is MQ. MQ shots are blockable, especially if the defender is quick and has good reach. LQ shots are blocked at a higher ratio than MQ shots. In my opinion, a star player is someone who makes LQ shots and creates MQ and HQ shots for his teammates. Also tracking quality is just for the sake of statistical tracking. It might be better to get a ton of LQ shots inside, or it might not. The stats will show.

    Shooting Zones:
    [​IMG]
    Blue - Inside Shots
    Yellow - Close Range
    Red - Mid Range
    Wood - Long Range

    Numbered Shooting Zones:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Kim, you're doing what I wanted to attempt when I asked the question about 82games.com in the NBA forum. :)
     
  5. Kim

    Kim Member

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    1st Quarter Game Redocumentation

    Personally, Play by Plays suck and box scores are misleading. The information is inconsistent and often times inaccurate. Of course, it lacks depth and precision. So in my quest to become a professional scout/analyst and ultimately a GM one day, I'm redoing how games are documented.

    12:00 Start of the 1st Quarter
    12:00 Jumpball: Yao Ming vs. Amare Stoudemire (Chuck Hayes gains possession) 0-0

    TM z11 vs SM; P rt by YM; SM over, AS show; MQ z6 PuJ over rotate AS
    11:33 Tracy McGrady misses 17-foot jumper 0-0
    11:32 0-0 Boris Diaw BBwin vs YM

    AS left lowblock back to hoop vs CH, ccw spinning J LQ over CH z3
    11:17 0-0 Amare Stoudemire misses 12-foot two point shot
    11:12 Rafer Alston defensive rebound 0-0
    10:56 Yao Ming bad pass 0-0 (doubled, pass to corner, but no one there)

    SM z13 vs TM, P left by AS; TM under, YM back; SM drives left by YM
    10:41 0-0 Shawn Marion misses layup MQ under YM
    10:38 Chuck Hayes defensive rebound 0-0

    YM left low block vs AS; BD vacates CH at key to double YM; CH cuts to hoop
    10:29 Chuck Hayes makes layup (Yao Ming assists/creates) 2-0 MQ over RB rotate from rt side
    10:23 2-0 Steve Nash bad pass (unforced)

    RA vs SN z7, oba: SB uses YM screen in z4 to run baseline to z10, YM immediatly follows SB and sets up deep left low block, freed by TM screen under hoop; RB over YM pick to chase SB; AS over TM pick, SM also switch and double YM
    10:12 Yao Ming misses MQ left hook z2 vs SM who went for swipe
    10:11 2-0 Shawn Marion defensive rebound

    SN vs RA z11; P left and R by BD; RA over, CH back; SN dribbles baseline; SB guards z14 RB while all other defenders around paint w/eyes on SN; pass to AS in paint, but YM recovered
    10:00 2-0 Amare Stoudemire misses 9-foot jumper LQ FuJ over YM z3
    9:59 Rafer Alston defensive rebound 2-0

    RA z12 vs SN; P rt by YM; SN over AS back, RA drives rt on AS
    9:49 Rafer Alston misses layup 2-0 MQ over AS rotate
    9:48 2-0 Amare Stoudemire defensive rebound

    SN z11 vs RA; P rt and R by BD; RA over, CH back; SN drives by CH, kick back to open BD left low block
    9:36 2-2 Boris Diaw makes 7-foot rt hook, z3 MQ over YM help (SN creates)

    RA MQ z12 CnS over SN (playing back) 12secs on clock; SB assistable
    9:18 Rafer Alston misses 25-foot three point jumper 2-2
    9:17 Phoenix defensive rebound 2-2
    9:17 Chuck Hayes loose ball foul (Boris Diaw draws the foul) 2-2

    SN z12 vs RA, pass to BD left highblock, quick cut by SN for return handoff screen by BD; RA already a step behind over, CH also too slow not even react
    9:07 2-2 Steve Nash misses layup HQ, fault- .5 RA, .5 CH
    9:07 Yao Ming defensive rebound 2-2

    Transition: 5 on 4, CH gets ahead of pack, TM nice pass, assistable
    9:02 2-2 Raja Bell shooting foul (Chuck Hayes draws the foul, MQ layup)
    9:02 Chuck Hayes makes free throw 1 of 2 3-2
    9:02 Chuck Hayes makes free throw 2 of 2 4-2

    SN z11 vs RA, YM doubles, defense triangle zone man mix, TM fronting BD rt high block, BD slips to hoop
    8:49 4-4 Boris Diaw makes layup (Steve Nash assists/creates) HQ (TM fault)

    RA vs SN z12; oba: TM runs from z5 to hoop, cuts back to z6 around YM screen, SM under
    8:33 Tracy McGrady misses 17-foot jumper 4-4 MQ CnS over SM recovering
    8:30 4-4 Raja Bell defensive rebound
    8:18 4-4 Raja Bell offensive foul (Chuck Hayes draws the foul) charge taken
    8:18 4-4 Raja Bell turnover
    8:18 4-4 Leandro Barbosa enters the game for Raja Bell

    TM z12 vs SM, P left by YM and R, SM under AS back and stays w/Yao, BD also doubles YM off CHz8
    8:03 Tracy McGrady misses layup 4-4 TM drives left HQ (SM fault)
    8:03 Houston offensive rebound 4-4 YM BBwin vs BD

    TM z11 vs SM, P rt by CH, BD back, SM over; MQ z6 PuJ over SM recov
    7:56 Tracy McGrady misses 20-foot jumper 4-4
    7:52 4-4 Amare Stoudemire defensive rebound

    Transition 3 on 3: defense guards paint and key, BD runs middle, SM and LB runs to corners
    7:48 4-7 Leandro Barbosa makes three point jumper (Boris Diaw assists) HQ CnS z10

    RA z10 vs SN, YM establishes deep position vs AS, MQ layup att; RA assistable
    7:28 4-7 Amare Stoudemire shooting foul (Yao Ming draws the foul)
    7:28 Yao Ming makes free throw 1 of 2 5-7
    7:28 Yao Ming makes free throw 2 of 2 6-7

    LB z11 iso vs SB, drives left, got step, HQ layup (SB fault)
    7:18 6-9 Leandro Barbosa makes driving layup

    TM z11 vs SM, P rt by CH, TM fakes rt, drives left by SM
    7:07 Tracy McGrady makes driving dunk 8-9 HQ (SM fault)

    BD z6 vs CH, drives rt to paint; YM helps from AS rt side, BD assistable/creates
    6:54 8-9 Amare Stoudemire misses 18-foot jumper CnS z9 HQ (fault YM and CH)
    6:52 8-9 Boris Diaw offensive rebound BBwin vs CH

    defense reset; LB vs SB z6, drives rt, crossover, drives left
    6:47 8-9 Leandro Barbosa misses layup LQ over SB
    6:45 8-9 Leandro Barbosa offensive rebound (SB missed box out)

    defense reset, YM straight D steal, anticipation
    6:35 8-9 Amare Stoudemire bad pass (Yao Ming steals)
    6:28 Tracy McGrady discontinue dribble 8-9

    SN vs RA z14, P left by AS and R; RA over, YM back, CH rotate from BD z6 to cover AS, SN pass to BD
    6:15 8-12 Marion makes 24-ft three pt(Diaw assists) TM fault drift to paint, HQ CnS z10, SN creates

    TM z10 vs SM; P rt by CH, SM over AS back, HQ PuJ z6, AS not challenge
    5:58 Tracy McGrady makes 18-foot jumper 10-12

    SN vs RA z12; P left by AS, RA over, YM way back
    5:41 10-14 Steve Nash makes 15-foot running jumper z7 HQ YM fault

    CH at FT line, drives left on BD, spins ccw, LQ z3 right hook over AS help
    5:26 Chuck Hayes misses 8-foot jumper 10-14
    5:24 Chuck Hayes offensive rebound 10-14 YM BBwin vs AS
    5:22 Chuck Hayes makes layup 12-14 HQ putback

    Transition 4 on 5: SN pass to AS left side, AS mishandle great pass and SB took charge
    5:16 12-14 Steve Nash pass (Chuck Hayes steals loose ball, cred to SB D)

    Transition kind of: defense never matched up
    5:05 Chuck Hayes makes layup (Shane Battier assists) 14-14

    SN drives by RA in to paint traffic, controlled dribble, YM doubles and tired, his fault not even try to cover
    4:47 14-16 Boris Diaw makes 17-foot jumper (Steve Nash assists) z6 HQ CnS
    4:28 Yao Ming misses 7-foot hook shot 14-16 z2 LQ left hook vs AS
    4:26 14-16 Amare Stoudemire defensive rebound

    Transition: 3 on 3, SN pass to LB z10 drives left on SB, got step, MQ layup under CH help
    4:20 14-18 Leandro Barbosa makes layup (Steve Nash assists)
    4:09 Houston full timeout
    4:09 Luther Head enters the game for Shane Battier 14-18
    4:09 Juwan Howard enters the game for Chuck Hayes 14-18
    4:09 Dikembe Mutombo enters the game for Yao Ming 14-18
    4:09 14-18 Kurt Thomas enters the game for Boris Diaw

    TM vs SN on a switch, iso backs in z7, doubled by LB from LH z11, HQ CnS
    3:55 Luther Head misses 25-foot three point jumper 14-18 create/assistable by TM
    3:53 14-18 Kurt Thomas defensive rebound
    3:41 14-18 Amare Stoudemire traveling

    TM iso z6 vs SM, drives left, spins cw, HQ layup att
    3:32 14-18 Shawn Marion shooting foul (Tracy McGrady draws the foul)
    3:32 Tracy McGrady misses free throw 1 of 2 14-18
    3:32 Tracy McGrady misses free throw 2 of 2 14-18
    3:31 14-18 Steve Nash defensive rebound

    KT z7 vs JH, oba: SN gets screen by AS left low block, RA under; KT dribble handoff screen for SN z6
    3:19 14-21 Nash makes 25-ft three pt j (Thomas assists) CnS z11 MQ over recov RA

    TM vs SM face up iso z8, pump fake, drive left to paint, got step, quadruple teamed, kick to JH z5, swing to LH z12, pump fakes recovering LB, z3 floater MQ over KT help, TM creates
    3:00 Luther Head makes 11-foot floater 16-21
    2:50 Dikembe Mutombo illegal defense foul (1st personal foul) 16-21
    2:50 Phoenix full timeout
    2:50 16-21 James Jones enters the game for Shawn Marion
    2:50 16-21 Eric Piatkowski enters the game for Steve Nash
    2:50 16-22 Leandro Barbosa makes technical free throw

    AS rt low block vs DM, face up; oba: LB runs to z10, RA not looking, then gets screened by KT
    2:33 16-22 Leandro Barbosa misses 23-foot three point jumper HQ CnS (RA fault) z10
    2:31 Tracy McGrady defensive rebound 16-22

    TM z12 vs JJ; DM P left, JJ over, AS back and switches to TM who crosses over rt
    2:24 Tracy McGrady misses two point shot 16-22 MQ z3 floater over KT help
    2:19 16-22 James Jones defensive rebound

    AS z6 FuJ HQ b/c DM playing back (at fault)
    2:09 16-24 Amare Stoudemire makes 19-foot jumper

    TM z7 vs JJ, P rt by DM, KT back, JJ under; TM PuJ MQ over JJ
    1:54 James Jones blocks Tracy McGrady's 20-foot jumper 16-24 surprising reach
    1:50 16-24 Leandro Barbosa defensive rebound

    LB vs TM z13; P left by AS, DM shows hard, TM over
    1:35 16-26 Stoudemire makes 18-foot j (Barbosa create/assists) MQ z8 CnS over DM recover

    TM z6 face up vs JJ, drives rt trippled, kicks to LH, swing to RA; CnS z14 MQ over EP rotate
    1:15 Rafer Alston misses 25-foot three point jumper 16-26 assistable LH, create by TM
    1:13 16-26 Kurt Thomas defensive rebound
    1:04 Chuck Hayes enters the game for Dikembe Mutombo 16-26
    0:59 16-26 Leandro Barbosa bad entry pass

    TM z7 vs JJ, P right and R by CH, AS shows, JJ over, KT rotates to CH paint from JH z11; JH runs to z7
    0:43 Juwan Howard makes 18-foot jumper (Tracy McGrady assists/creates) 18-26 CnS HQ z7

    JJ z8 vs TM; P rt by KT, JH back, TM over, z9 MQ PuJ over TM recovering
    0:32 18-28 James Jones makes 19-foot jumper

    exact same play as before
    0:17 Juwan Howard makes 16-foot jumper (Tracy McGrady assists) 20-28
    0:07 Rafer Alston personal foul (Leandro Barbosa draws the foul) 20-28

    LB vs RA z12, P left by KT, RA under, JH back, LB drives left on JH
    0:03 20-30 Leandro Barbosa makes driving layup LQ over JH
    0:00 End of the 1st Quarter
     
  6. Kim

    Kim Member

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    Phoenix Suns Half Court Offense
    Steve Nash
    2/3 shooting (1/1 trey) for 5 pts, 4 shots created for others (4/4 for 9pts)
    1/2 HQ, 1/1 MQ
    0/1 inside, 1/1 midrange, 1/1 long
    0/1 layup, 1/1 floater, 1/1 CnS

    Amare Stoudamire
    2/5 shooting for 4 pts, 2 TO (bad pass Yao anticipation steal, traveling)
    1/2 HQ, 1/1 MQ, 0/2 LQ
    0/2 close range, 2/3 midrange
    2/5 Jumpers (1/2 CnS, 1/2 FuJ, 1/2 SJ)

    Shawn Marionp
    1/2 shooting for 3 pts
    0/1 MQ, 1/1 HQ
    0/1 Inside, 1/1 Long Range
    0/1 layup 1/1 CnS

    Boris Diaw
    3/3 overall shooting for 6pts
    2/2 HQ, 1/1 MQ
    1/1 inside, 1/1 close range, 1/1 midrange
    1/1 layup, 1/1 RHook, 1/1 CnS

    Leandro Barbosa
    2/4 + 1/1 FT tech def3 for 5 total pts, 1 shot created for others (1/1 for 2pts), 1 TO bad entry pass
    1/2 HQ, 1/2 LQ
    2/3 inside, 0/1 long range
    2/3 layup, 0/1 CnS

    James Jones
    1/1 overall for 2pts
    1/1 MQ
    1/1 midrange
    1/1 Pull Up Jumper

    Raja Bell
    1 TO, charge vs Hayes rotate

    Phoenix Half Court Offense Totals
    it's the same stat as Rockets Half Court Defense Totals above
     
    #6 Kim, Mar 14, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2007
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Wow. That's like an enclycopedia of information, and it's just the first quarter.

    Another peice of information you might want to add (you've pretty much fit everything else in there) is time on the shot clock when a shot was attempted.

    Also passes aren't obvious there. You don't tally assists?
     
    #7 durvasa, Mar 14, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2007
  8. Kim

    Kim Member

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    Ealier in the year, I had a theory that the reason the Suns would destroy the Rockets in the playoffs is because of the transition game. It's not a unique theory, but I did a pretty in depth statistical analysis based on play by plays and shot clock usage. That thread is here: http://bbs.clutchfans.com/showthread.php?t=121391

    I was trying to back up the thought that the Rockets transition defense was relatively weak compared to other contenders and that the Suns force the run.

    The problem is, after redocumenting this 1st quarter and watching these games with extensive pausing and rewinding (yah for DVR), it was the Rockets half court defense that got blown out of the water. Yao was tired just 5 minutes into the game, and even before he was tired he was slow and couldn't rotate. Deke was just as bad. T-Mac was terribly inattentive to his man and gave up many open shots. Maybe the Rockets should go zone, or just go behind the Picks or find a different rotation scheme. For the 1st quarter was just full of defensive breakdowns. At least I hope they were breakdowns and not designed plays to give up so many good shots.
     
  9. Kim

    Kim Member

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    Assists are already in the play by play (though there are a few mistakes here and there). I tally assistables, which are a little subjective, but after doing this for hours, I don't think it's a great stat (assistables Nor assists). It means nothing to me when Rafer feeds TMac coming off a double Pick and TMac dribbles once to rise up and shoot over a 6'5" rotating defender and makes the shot. So even though Rafer gets the assist there, it really means nothing in my book.

    I stated in the glossary that shots created are much more important than assists. Some "shots created" are assists, others aren't, and that's why I'm differentiating the stat and tracking it.

    Many plays are an end result of a chain reaction of multiple events. It starts with one guys, let's say TMac, beating his man off the dribble, drawing the defense in, driving to the hoop and kicking out to Luther Head. Let's say Head pump fakes the 3pter and gets a rotating defender to bite on it, then drives himself and kicks out again. Someone eventually ends up with an open shot.

    I say TMac created that shot. The reason is if the defender was on Luther Head straight up, and Head held the ball, his pump fake would be no good because the defender was already in good position. TMac's creation came from drawing the defense in and putting other defenders at a disadvantage when TMac kicked it out to Head. Head was able to further the play by exploiting the advantage created by TMac's penetration.

    Now you have to watch carefully. It's not a created shot by TMac if the defender fully recovers on Head and Head needs a PnR to start another play. But it's a very common scenario where the offensive play takes 15 seconds after the initial move to end up with a good shot, and w/in those moves everything tied back to the advantage created by the 1st player.

    It's just something I decided as the right thing to track. Assists themselves are a worthless stat to me. You can create the most beautiful assistable pass and the end result could be a blown easy layup. That creation would never show up on the stat sheet, but it should in my opinion.
     
  10. rlmjdime

    rlmjdime Member

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    Truly amazing breakdown of the first. Stats are so telling in how a game is played out. I also agree and have been aggravated by the official assist stat. The way you have explained is exactly the way I feel about it.
     
  11. bchapman101

    bchapman101 Member

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    one thing about those rebounds that you dont count if it bounces right to him; the thing is, the player has often put himself in that position to grab the rebound, even if it went striaight to him, for example, as soon as he saw the ball shot, he darted for the glass and found an open area where he had a 50/50 chance of the ball bouncing in his vicinity; great rebounders get lots of those battle boards, but they are also smart in their positioning and timing their jumps right, so even if the ball goes right to them, they often fought for that positon, and were diligent in getting there well before the ball bouced off the rim

    but this wasnt the point of your post so forget I mentioned it
     
  12. Omer

    Omer Member

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    Oh my god, make your own website with this stuff. Would be a nice resource and you could make some money off ads and such probably too.
     
  13. matty101

    matty101 Member

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    Man that stuff is amazing :eek:

    Can i just ask you how long it took you and if you do this for every game??

    geeze its quality stuff Kim

    Keep it up ;)
     
  14. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    Kim is a quality poster. he's PBP on chat are also much appreciated. one of the classy posters here.
     
  15. roxfan123

    roxfan123 Member

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    Agree. Such nice analysis is much better than the thousands of fire JVG and play xxx thread. Kim, I wonder if you can break down Suns offense, their picks, passing, and the off ball running (particularly of SM and LBarbosa). Oh wait, you can probably sell that for $900000000000 to JVG, :D
     
  16. Hayesfan

    Hayesfan Member

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    quick question kim on the defensive stats.

    When you say 0/1 ... is that shot makes against / total shot attempts against??

    as always quality work on the breakdown.

    If I owned the team, I'd hire ya! ;)
     
  17. anitasri

    anitasri Member

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    Kim

    That was the best piece of truly amazing information. May all your dreams come true.

    Man that was some really detailed work! Keep it up

    Maybe we should have a moderated section- with invited posters like yourself.
     
  18. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

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    outstanding stuff kim...now I see who you havent been in chat lately. ;)

    I kno wwhat my impressions of the first are, but what would you say if asked to rate the aspects of the game?

    You say the half court D got tore up (I agree), but you didnt say what you thoguht of the transition D, I actually thought they did a very good job of preventing fast break buckets inthe first half.
    With the Suns, that is normally where they tear you up.

    Also, do you feel that one of the reasons why the Rockets were tornup in the half court was because of the amount of extra energy they put into scrambling back in transition D? Being that most of our inside players are old/slow AND being on the second night of a b2b that pitted them against another tough interior player the night before, I really feel that hurt us badly as far as energy goes.

    thoughts?
     
  19. Kim

    Kim Member

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    I understand what you're saying. I've tried breaking down rebounds in a lot of ways...it just really gets complicated, and ultimately I'm making a judgment call. For example, the way many defenses play against Pick and Roll, allows the Roller to get all the way to the hoop w/o the ball. So if the person throws up a shot, the Roller has a natural rebounding inside position advantage, to no fault of the player guarding him because of the set defensive rotations. So in that instance, the Roller, in my opinion, easily is supposed to have inside position and any rebound coming to him should not be classified as anything special.

    I tried marking down things like "good box out", "good hustle" and so on, but it just didn't make enough difference for me. Many rebounds are so easy because the entire offensive team has already left and there are 3 defenders standing around. I used to mark those as "easy", but then decided they are worth the same as someone doing their job, taking advantage of their inside position and boxing out.

    Now, if player, let's say an offensive player, does a spin move and gets inside position on the defender, now I'm marking that as "missed box out". Because ultimately, it's the defender's job to prevent that from happening. I'm concluded that most of all rebounds are just players doing their jobs. Most players can be interchangeable.

    What really makes a difference are the missed box outs and the Battle Boards. I'm not going to lie and say it isn't a judgment call. Because sometimes a Battle Board occurs because the defender did a poor job of boxing out, so I've decided that if he still wins the Battle Board, I'm not going to give credit for it because it was his job to box out.

    So I'm just trying to make note of when players don't do their jobs on rebounding, or when there's a rebound that's totally up for grabs in my opinion...because those Battle Boards will tip the scale.
     
  20. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    Thank you Kim for your detailed and most presise work on the analysis of the first quarter. As I am not a Basketball Coach I would like to know the concusions we should draw for these stats and data?
     

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