MManal, that's not a bad idea. You think Mo T would be happy with that situation? I don't see why not, given he'd be the starting PF and get his big pay day. And Sacramento could do worse. But what about talk of the Rockets trying to keep both players? I don't think they can do it either, but I really want to know why and how they'd do that. About the Orlando-type player, picks trade, who could we offer that a team like Chicago would be willing to give up their pick for? Shandon? Cato? I don't know; Shandon and another solid player worthy of starting for any team, maybe, but that's assuming Shandon would agree to that. I don't see how Williams and/or Rogers would get it done. ------------------
Who thinks the last sentence is sarcasm?? Saying we'll have $4.5m to spend on Hakeem if we give Webber the max is just not there. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 16, 2001).]
Yeah, I'd really like to help Chicago, if only to help ourselves. I keep dreamcasting a 3-way involving Keith Van Horn (I think you've wondered about this one, too, Relativist), considering the Nets could use some of our players (Shandon, Cato, they've shown interest in Walt I think) and want to lose KVH (who Chicago covets). I don't know if NJ or the Bulls have interest in Cato, but that would be sweet if they did (duh!) I wouldn't mind getting Chicago's draft pick. It's a little higher than we want, maybe, unless we can get an anger management therapist on staff for Eddie Griffin. The idea being, we can help Chicago in their quest not to suck, considering no one will willingly sign there anymore, and we can not help Sacramento stay competitive (unless Webber's dad and/or Webber's conscience gives us no choice; but, still, we should have options). ------------------
Relativist, I think the talk of bringing back Mo and signing Webber is more just looking at options than anything else. Its basically a way of making Mo not feel totally unwanted. Mo values getting a solid guaranteed contract over other things such as location, type of city, etc so I think he would go for it. As far as the Chicago scenario, Im not talking about trading those guys for Chicago's pick this yr. What Orlando did was trade Derek Strong, Corey Maggete and pick 10 to LAC for future considertations. That way, you move salaried players and your salary obligation to your first round pick. Houston could move pick 22 and 18 (if they get it) plus salaried players like Walt Williams and/or Rogers to Chicago for some form of future compensation. Basically, this is a win-win situation for both teams as the Bulls would get a veteran SF that can shoot the 3 with only 1 yr left on his contract and pick up 1 or 2 additional draft picks. The Rockets would open up the salary slot to re-sign Dream and sign Webber. Also, signing Moochie will not be the chore that it has been made out to be. Unsigned, he will count around 500K on the cap, and the Rockets can pay him up to the league avg of 4.5 mil even after they are capped out. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
One other thing, the reason I mentioned Chicago for that transaction and not other teams is b/c they are only one of two teams a deal like that works with (LAC being the other). To offload players like that on draft night, the receiving team has to have sufficient cap room before the free agent period even begins. The Bulls currently have about 5-6 mil under the cap and could fit Walt's salary into that. A reason I picked Chicago as the possibility over LAC is b/c the Bulls actually do need an outside shooting veteran SF and would be getting one on a short contract along with other draft picks for some future considerations. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
If we do a sign and trade with Sac Town why would the money not be there? Rocket River ------------------
RR, by your logic, I could say that everyone in the league could do a sign-n-trade with Webber. Base Year Compensation does not factor in on this S&T. Webber's is not taking a jump in salary. You can trade him straight for equal value non-BYCs with no trouble cap wise. Everyone in the league could place an S&T on the table, probably better than Houston does. I don't read Dale Mulletson talking about S&Ts. He is talking about a straight acquisition on the open market. I don't see how Houston has any advantage in a S&T over a dozen other teams. There is no CBA advantage to them dealing with us over any other team, since Webber effectively will not be a BYC player. In fact, our package would suck ... bad. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 16, 2001).]
But it's not really up to Sacramento to decide who they trade with. They can either get something for him, or get nothing. ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club
Just something interesting. I had no idea where to post it what w/ the 50 Webber threads. Pretty interesting. This is when I try on my "I didn't like you anyway, fatso" psychology. *click* What's all the fus? This guy is soft... and have you seen him run? WTF? I'd take Mo and overpay a FA Center like Antonio Davis. Mo is a body and Antonio can rebound. Leave it to the backcourt to do all of the work, it's what you'd have to do w/ a Webber on the team anyway, the ****ing *****. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
Um, its a great article. ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Don't visit my site.
Moving Achebe's post to another thread because the other one's a lost cause. Really like to hear what people think of Robertson's optimism. Achebe wrote: Dale Robertson might have a mullett, but at least he writes things that I want to read. What would you say if somebody told you the Rockets were going to sign Chris Webber, retain Hakeem Olajuwon, acquire real help in the draft and, despite the bottom-line ramifications of the aforementioned, reward your extreme patience for their two-season playoff drought by not raising ticket prices? You'd say hip, hip hooray, that's what. And it's all about to happen. Webber's coming, Hakeem's staying, draft day will be a hoot and the price of admission won't be rising for the first time in ages, at least since before tattoos and baggy shorts were in vogue. The latter is a done deal. You'll soon receive a letter from owner Leslie Alexander, officially declaring same. True, the other items are a bit more speculative. But things appear to be breaking exactly right for the Rockets in regard to Webber, who is going, going, gone from Sacramento -- mentally, emotionally and physically -- after the Kings were flung headfirst from the second round of the playoffs by those bully Lakers. No, he didn't play well, but, no, he didn't much appreciate having it pointed out by every man, woman and child in greater Sacramento. Being made to shoulder the blame for the sweep hurt his feelings and reinforced his unhappiness over living in what he considers the NBA's hicksville. Relations between the town, which he once called boring, and its totem were already strained. Now the pairing is irreparably broken. So, why Houston when everyone wants Webber, too, you ask? Because there may be no marquee player in the league more driven to win a championship -- his phantom timeout fiasco at Michigan still haunts him -- and he will see that the Rockets are better situated for his grabbing that elusive ring than anyone who can remotely afford the roughly $12 million salary he'll command. Cap space at a premium Only four teams have the cap room to meet Webber's financial needs: Detroit, Chicago, Seattle and the Rockets. The hapless Bulls have no hope of prevailing for the same reason his hometown Pistons don't, either. Neither is positioned to win any time soon, even in the scrawny Eastern Conference, and neither has a player with whom he could share the burden of superstardom. The SuperSonics are coming off a 44-victory season, but they are in transition in the wake of the failed Patrick Ewing experiment. Management is contemplating a wholesale rebuilding, not a word Webber wants to hear ever again coming from Golden State, Washington and Sacramento. At 28, he's feeling a real sense of urgency. The Rockets, meanwhile, won 45 games with a fun team that's young at its heart. In Steve Francis, he will have a yin to go with his yang, a fellow go-to guy who shares his hunger for cresting the hump. Stevie Franchise -- the nickname alone lifts a load off Webber -- possesses a whatever-it-takes mind-set. Francis can be happy scoring or assisting, as long as the result is good. And Houston after dark has enough action to satisfy Webber's needs off the court. Not as much as New York, his favorite place, but enough. In a perfect Webber world, he would clearly prefer to be a Knick. Latrell Sprewell is his best friend and the lights don't get any brighter than around the Garden on game night. But the Knicks are severely strapped cap-wise and could only acquire Webber through a sign-and-trade deal with Sacramento, meaning the Kings would have the Knicks by the neck. Trade could nix NY move Presumably Sacramento could pry enough from New York for him that what the Knicks were left with wouldn't be as attractive to Webber as the supporting cast in Houston, where, by the way, he would not have to play center, his most hated position. Whatever happens to Kelvin Cato, Webber will have the additional incentive of being able to join forces with the Hall of Famer-to-be Olajuwon. With Chris on the way, Hakeem will cut a deal of his own, guaranteed. After how strongly Dream finished this season, there's no doubt the Rockets desire his services for an 18th season and, even with Webber in the fold, they should still have some $4.5 million left over. No other team Olajuwon might consent to play for -- he's 100 percent about winning at this final-act career juncture -- could pay him appreciably more. Factor in the multiple first-round picks the Rockets have to use or barter with in a rich draft, plus a swank new arena coming on line in 2003-04, and Houston becomes a terribly attractive option. No pesky state income tax with which to deal, either. And all those happy Houston fans returning to the fold in droves, again satisfied they're getting sufficient bang for their bucks. Nice move with the price freeze, Les. Thank you. Personally, I like the optimism, but can anyone verify having $4.5 million left for Dream after signing Webber? I'm sure the Rockets would like Dream to return, but I don't know how much. I have a feeling he's third behind Webber and Mo T. Not good. I think Dale's just dreamcasting. Webber and Dream would be really, really nice, though. ------------------
lol! please delete my comments. It'll help focus on the optimism of the article. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
MManal, I get you now. That seems significantly more attainable than what I had envisioned (which was throwing players around to essentially move up in the draft.) Question: any ideas on the nature of the future first-rounder the Clips traded for Maggette and company? And any guesses on the type of first-rounder we'd get if we traded away Walt, Rogers, 18 and 22 to Chicago? Shoot, while I'm at it, what do you think about the possibilities of working out a deal with Vancouver for giving them the 18 in place of the Steve Francis pick obligation? While this is directed at MManal, anyone feel free to jump in. ------------------
If it is truly not up to Sacramento to decide who they trade with, why would we they take junk from us just to accommodate our need to not renounce Hakeem. We have nothing to offer them but junk. Why wouldn't they just accept the $12m cap windfall instead of Cato and Walt, or whatever?
I just dont see both Webber and Mo on this team next season. I have a feeling that the Rockets will offer Sacto Mo Taylor and picks or something along those lines in a sign and trade package (similar to Orlando's move for Hill, a free agent trade). Im not sure where Robertson gets the 4.5 mil cap room after signing Webber but if true, that should be enough to retain Hakeem. My understanding is that the Rockets will have just enough for Webber with their current cap space. There are question marks about the exact salaries of Williams and Rogers along with whether or not the Rockets can let Rogers go w/o any cap ramifications so that somewhat confuses matters a tad. However, if the Rockets go the similar route as Orlando of last yr and package salaried players (Williams and/or Rogers) with draft picks 22nd and 18th (if they get it) to a team with cap space like Chicago that would add young guys and vets in one move, then that should leave sufficient cap room to sign Webber, re-sign Olajuwon and bring back Mooch. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited May 16, 2001).]
The details on the Clippers pick to Orlando are pretty hazy. Apparently its lottery protected and sometime after 2002 but not sure about the exact year. In any case, I would expect a marginal pick at best from Chicago. Basically, we are losing in the talent equation in this specific trade, but its a matter of taking one step back to take two steps forward. We would be losing out on one or two draft picks, but this would open up the cap room to re-sign Dream to a lower amount (around 5 mil or so) and then pursue Chris Webber. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Yeah, we're in agreement here. Sacramento quite possibly would prefer to take nothing over taking a package of players we could offer them. Unless we did them a favor by resigning Mo & Shandon & shipping them to Sacramento for Webber ... I suppose anything's possible. Very simply put, I imagine it could go something like this WEBB: Hey Sacramento. It's been real. You think you can help me go to New York? SAC: Not unless they'll give us A. Houston & Camby. WEBB: Well then they'll suck. I guess I'm going to Orlando then. SAC: Not unless they give us a couple of their best players. WEBB: Screw that. I wanna play for a contender. I guess I'll head on out to Houston then. SAC: You think they will give us anyone good? WEBB: Don't bet on it. I'll send you guys a couple of playoff tickets when the season's over. ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club
Or Sacto could turn around and say: "Houston's offer of a signed and traded Mo Taylor and draft picks isnt half bad. We get a talented young forward that can grow with our team and still preserve a significant chunk of cap room." ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Further proof I will win my SF bet. If this is a negotiating angle for a S&T, you've got to believe the last thing Sac needs is a SF, so why would we pick one prior to this proposed S&T. MManal, do you want to join in the bet.
I was thinking more in terms of future draft picks b/c I dont know if they can work something out in advance of the draft. Will Webber have a decision that early? In any case, though, I'd like to get in on the bet b/c I think in some way, the Rockets will upgrade the 3 spot. Whether they draft a player like Richard Jefferson earlier on or take someone like Terence Morris later. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
