[Reuters] Poll says Chavez loses Venezuela referendum lead

I agree this referendum is going to be very interesting. If he fixes it or loses and ignores the results he will pretty much prove his critics right.

 

He's already proven his critics right, Sishir. Now it's sinking in to the general population, with its large percentage of the poor and disadvantaged, that this guy they thought was for democracy is setting himself up as yet another South American tinpot dictator, Castro variety.



D&D. Attempt Civility!

Impeach Bush for Creating Idiots.

 

It will "pass" one way or another. No way Chavez allows this to fail. With his treasury full of oil revenue, he will bribe poorer areas with promises of projects in the next 7 days into voting yes. This referendum is too important to Chavez.

 

maybe he can call musharraf for tips?

 

Hopefully, the Venezuelan people will follow the example of the King of Spain.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1JVOGi11Niw&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1JVOGi11Niw&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

 

I don't agree with a lot of what he's done but he has been democractically elected and hasn't yet suspended the democractic process. That sets him apart from Musharraf, Castro and other strongmen. While I might not agree with a lot of his policies if he willingly accepts the results of an election going against him and abides by term limits I would say that makes him much more than another South American tinpot dictator.

 

That is a good point and how clean this election is does matter in how much faith he has in democracy.

 

Chavez has shut down virtually all opposition press and intimidated the rest. I don't care how he was elected, that is not democracy.

 

You are pointing out the obvious, but go ahead... it seems to be going right over the head of some otherwise intelligent people here, in my opinion.



D&D. Attempt Civility!

Impeach Bush for Holding Hands with an Idiot.

 

but he "truly is somebody who believes in democracy" according to dubya's standards.

 

According to dubya's standards, Iraq's few canisters of old mustard gas made them the greatest threat to the US.

 

That's not actually an accurate picture now, as there still is operation press allowed, though he has taken efforts to undermine it recently and in the press.

It certainly wasn't true at the time of any of his multiple elections.

 

Tell me if Chavez loses the referendum and abides by term limits will your opinion change? You seem to have already prejudged Chavez. While there is certainly a lot to criticize him for my point is if he actually does abide by the terms of the referendum that will prove his critics wrong. If not then his critics were right all along but this is the first election where Chavez has a realistic chance of actually losing.

 

Prejudged? Chavez has changed the rules so many times that calling this "prejudging" is ridiculous. While his first election was legitimate, his actions after assuming control have proven his primary goal is consolidating his grip on power and extending it indefinitely. In fact, this referendum itself shows that.

Just like our pathetic president George Bush, Chavez has a long enough track record to define himself. If he allows himself to lose this vote, he will just continue purging people and institutions that oppose him until he can try again. The guy is a relentless, long term dictator.

I'm not defending the people that controlled Venezuela before Chavez, but at least they didn't destroy or mangle the institutions that allowed for their own demise. Too bad we can't say that for Chavez.

 

Chavez and Musharraf: Castro wannabes

 

I worked indirectly for the Venezuelan government for three years. If the way he ran the oil ministry is any indication, if the referendum loses, he will figure out another way to gain the power. He's already changed the law so that he could stay in power. The man is a power-hungry, two-bit dictator.

 

I'm not prejudging him. I'm basing my opinion on his actions up to date and the very fact that he is holding this referendum. His actions are very similar to what we are seeing in Russia today, where Putin is creating an oligarchy wrapped in a phony ribbon of democracy. If Chavez is such a great guy, why does he feel the need to rip his country's constitution to shreds by shoving through what he needs to remain in power indefintely, while continuing to squash his political opponents? Would you stand for what he is doing here?



D&D. Attempt Civility!

Impeach Bush for Holding Hands with an Idiot.

 

I am having problems with Chavez recently, but I believe this is a nearly complete falsehood.

 

I agree with you on this. I have agreed with a lot of his policies. The gains in reducing poverty and using Venezuela's oil revenues for the good of the lower I would estimate 4/5 of the population have been impressive.

Venezuelan politics is so polarized and the reporting on Chavez is so generally biased it is hard to know if this poll for instance is neutral.

I am hoping that he loses the vote, continues many of his policies with regard to foreign policy and distribution of Venezuela's oil revenues etc. and returns to a more mainstream type of political style. I don't think merely amending to allow him to run indefinitely is bad in itself, as I believe that France, Austrialia and of course the US prior to Roosevelt allowed this.

It should be interesting to see.

The commitment to democracy of many of his leading opponents who with US approval almost removed him in a military coup should not be exaggerated. Another non-democratic maneuver by his opponents, designed to deligitimize him, again with US backing, was to withdraw from the elections for the federal legislature a couple of years ago, since they knew they would not do too well. This left Chavez with I believe 100% support in the Congress. Not a good move by the opposition.

Imagine if Bush had had 100% GOP control of Congress.