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Restoring respect for America

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    Obama and Hillbilly doing a bang-up job.

    [rquoter]Candidates rebuked for attacks on Nafta

    By Andrew Ward and Daniel Dombey in Washington

    Published: February 28 2008 02:00 | Last updated: February 28 2008 02:00

    Mexico and Canada yesterday voiced concerns about calls by Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement, as the Democratic presidential hopefuls compete to adopt the most sceptical stance towards free trade before next week's Ohio primary.

    In a televised debate on Tuesday night, Mr Obama and Mrs Clinton both threatened to pull out of Nafta if elected president unless Canada and Mexico agreed to strengthen labour and environmental standards.

    Arturo Sarukhan, Mexico's ambassador to the US, told the Financial Times the US, Canada and Mexico had all benefited from Nafta and warned against reopening negotiations. "Mexico does not support reopening Nafta," he said. "It would be like throwing a monkey wrench into the engine of North American competitiveness."

    Mexican diplomats say a renegotiation could resurrect commercial disputes and barriers to trade that the agreement was designed to overcome.

    Jim Flaherty, Canada's finance minister, expressed "concern" about the remarks by the Democratic candidates: "Nafta is a tremendous benefit to Americans and perhaps the [candidates] have not had the opportunity to familiarise themselves with the benefit to Americans and the American economy of Nafta."

    Nafta, which removed -tariffs on most trade between the US, Canada and Mexico when it was implemented in 1994, has become the focus of debate about the exodus of manufacturing jobs from Ohio.

    The state has lost more than 200,000 manufacturing jobs - nearly a quarter of its previous total - since Nafta was introduced, although experts say the deal is only one of many factors to blame for the decline. "Nafta has become a proxy for the -economic problems facing Ohio," says Jon Honeck, a researcher at -Policy Matters Ohio, a think-tank.

    Mr Obama, Democratic frontrunner, has targeted Mrs Clinton over Nafta because the deal was agreed by her husband, Bill Clinton, and was trumpeted at the time as a landmark achievement of his presidency. Mr Clinton has already renegotiated Nafta once - after taking office in 1993 he agreed separate labour and environmental accords with Mexico and Canada. Those side-agreements have often since been criticised for lacking substance.

    In Tuesday's debate, Mrs Clinton said she had always been a sceptic about the agreement but acknowledged she had remained silent about her doubts at the time. Mr Obama accused her of claiming credit for the "good things" associated with her husband's administration while distancing herself from its failures.

    Both candidates say they support free trade but want tougher environmental and labour standards imposed on trading partners to create a more level playing field. Mrs Clinton says she favours a "time-out" on new trade deals. In a TV advert she pledges to "fight to change trade deals like Nafta".

    Mr Obama said the US "should use the hammer of a potential opt-out" to force Canada and Mexico to reopen talks.

    Nachama Soloveichik, of the Club for Growth, a pro-free trade group, said: "The Democratic party of 2008 is becoming increasingly protectionist. We see them moving away from the relatively centrist position they held in the 1990s under President Clinton. They are appealing to the worst instincts of the American people but it will ultimately be the American people who lose if we retreat from free trade."[/rquoter]
     
  2. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    ... so you are worried about a South Park The Movie type scenario?

    Somehow, I don't think we're worried about "restoring respect" from our nearest neighbors. Most of Europe, Asia, and the Middle East are kind of more problems for us, reputation wise, just now.
     
  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    What? Ripping up trade agreements, threatening to bomb your allies (Pakistan), scaring China into a trade war, and abandoning the Iraqis isn't 'bringing the world together' like Obama says? YOU MUST BE JOKING.
     
  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Gotta love the creative titles. People love Obama worldwide. Not sure they'll like a geezer who is pushing a continuation of Bush's foreign policies.
     
  5. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Restore respect for the United States? Boot out of office the President who took it upon himself to launch a voluntary war against a country that wasn't a clear and present danger to the United States, at a cost that is going to be in the trillions of dollars, that lost that respect around the world. Elect a Democrat to the office so he/she can get started restoring it.




    Impeach Bush.
     
  6. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    quoted for truth
     
  7. basso

    basso Member
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    Apparently, for Obama it's all Rhetoric.

    [rquoter]Barack Obama has ratcheted up his attacks on NAFTA, but a senior member of his campaign team told a Canadian official not to take his criticisms seriously, CTV News has learned.

    Both Obama and Hillary Clinton have been critical of the long-standing North American Free Trade Agreement over the course of the Democratic primaries, saying that the deal has cost U.S. workers' jobs.

    Within the last month, a top staff member for Obama's campaign telephoned Michael Wilson, Canada's ambassador to the United States, and warned him that Obama would speak out against NAFTA, according to Canadian sources.

    The staff member reassured Wilson that the criticisms would only be campaign rhetoric, and should not be taken at face value.

    But Tuesday night in Ohio, where NAFTA is blamed for massive job losses, Obama said he would tell Canada and Mexico "that we will opt out unless we renegotiate the core labour and environmental standards."

    Late Wednesday, a spokesperson for the Obama campaign said the staff member's warning to Wilson sounded implausible, but did not deny that contact had been made.

    "Senator Obama does not make promises he doesn't intend to keep," the spokesperson said.

    Low-level sources also suggested the Clinton campaign may have given a similar warning to Ottawa, but a Clinton spokesperson flatly denied the claim.

    During Tuesday's debate, she said that as president she would opt out of NAFTA "unless we renegotiate it."

    Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said Wednesday that the candidates' criticisms of NAFTA were misguided.

    "(They) should recognize that NAFTA benefits the U.S. tremendously," he said. "Those who speak of it as helpful to (just the) Canadian or Mexican economies are missing the point."

    Liberal MP and finance critic John McCallum told Canada AM that the U.S. pulling out of NAFTA "would be a disaster for Canada."

    But he added, "I hope and I believe that it's politics, because they're in a high-stakes contest. I believe after this nominee is decided, this issue will go away."

    John Fortier, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise institute, said that in an effort to gain votes in the anti-NAFTA state of Ohio, each candidate might find themselves "locked-in" to their pledge to renegotiate NAFTA.

    "Last night, both candidates really locked themselves in to at least doing some serious renegotiation," Fortier told Canada AM. "But how serious they are and what the changes (will be) . . . that's another question.

    "But I don't know how Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton can get out of last night's very clear pledge that they are going to use the opt-out (clause) as a threat to do some serious renegotiation."

    Crucial primaries in Ohio and Texas are just one week away.

    During Tuesday night's debate, each candidate was quite specific about using the six-month opt-out clause in NAFTA, to pressure Canada and Mexico into renegotiating the deal.

    The March 4 primaries are seen as vital for each candidate, but particularly Clinton. It's expected that without a decisive win in both Texas and Ohio, she has no chance of winning the Democratic nomination.

    Clinton once had a large lead in each state, but recent polls are showing the candidates as close to even, with Obama surging ahead.

    Early polls show that there is a strong possibility of a Democrat in the White House in January 2009.

    Obama, in particular, is surging in popularity throughout the U.S. and some polls give the Illinois senator an almost double-digit lead if he were to run head-to-head against the expected Republican candidate, John McCain.

    With a report by CTV's Tom Clark in Washington[/rquoter]

    I wanna live with a cynical girl
    I could be happy the rest of my life
    With a cynical girl.
     
  8. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    The streets respect Imam Barak Hussein...that's all that counts!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    R.E.S.P.E.C.T.​
     
    #8 tigermission1, Feb 28, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2008
  9. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    You do realize both the Obama campaign and the Canadian government have denied the conversation ever happened right?
     
  10. basso

    basso Member
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    Farra, Farra, Farra, Farra khan
    Farra khan, Farra khan, Farra khan
    Farra khan, let me rock you
    Let me rock you, Farra khan
    Let me rock you, that's all i wanna do
    Farra khan, let me rock you
    Let me rock you, Farra khan
    Let me rock you, let me feel for you
    Farra khan let me tell you what i wanna do
    Do you feel for me, the way i feel for you
    Farra khan let me tell you what i wanna do
    I wanna love you, wanna hug you, wanna squeeze you too
    Let me take you in my arms
    Let me fill you with my charms, Farra
    'cause you know that i'm the one to keep you warm
    Farra, i'll make you more than just a physical dream
    I wanna rock you, Farra
    Baby, cause you make me wanna scream
    Let me rock you, rock you
     
  11. basso

    basso Member
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    that's what you say

    Oh, Hosanna hey sanna, sanna sanna ho, sanna hey sanna Obama!
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Love that musical! I did Judas in college.

    yeah, yeah....
     
  13. basso

    basso Member
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    and, as you're no doubt surprised to learn, i did caiaphas...

    and later the first Nazarene
     
  14. basso

    basso Member
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    you've started to believe these things they say of you, you really do believe this talk of god is true.

    And all the good you've done, will soon get swept away
    You've begun to matter more than the things you say...

    ...you have set them all on fire, they think they've found the new messiah...
     
  15. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    You're a singer, why would that surprise me?

    Anyway, speaking of Farrakhan and the uproar about him, I find it interesting that no one's raising a stink about McCain accepting the endorsement today of the Pastor John Hagee who (eagerly awaits the Armageddon, considers the Catholic Church to be the Anti-Christ, and has said that Jews brought their own persecution upon themselves.
     
  16. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Simple: one is generally accepted in the public realm (i.e. Hagee and his insistence that Jews get together in the Holy Land to await their eventual slaughter) and the other isn't (Nation of Islam? WHITE DEVIL! WHITE DEVIL! WHITE DEVIL!).
     
  17. basso

    basso Member
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    CTV stands by it's story. Names names.

    He Who Must Not Be Middle-Named- the balls in your court.

    [rquoter]Obama campaign mum on NAFTA contact with Canada

    Updated Fri. Feb. 29 2008 12:32 PM ET

    CTV.ca News Staff

    Despite repeated requests, Barack Obama's campaign is still neither verifying nor denying a CTV report that a senior member of the team made contact with the Canadian government -- via the Chicago consulate general -- regarding comments Obama made about NAFTA.

    Allegations of double talk on the North American Free Trade Agreement from both the Obama and Clinton campaigns dominated the U.S. political landscape on Thursday.

    On Wednesday, CTV reported that a senior member of Obama's campaign called the Canadian government within the last month -- saying that when Senator Obama talks about opting out of the free trade deal, the Canadian government shouldn't worry. The operative said it was just campaign rhetoric not to be taken seriously.

    The Obama campaign told CTV late Thursday night that no message was passed to the Canadian government that suggests that Obama does not mean what he says about opting out of NAFTA if it is not renegotiated.

    However, the Obama camp did not respond to repeated questions from CTV on reports that a conversation on this matter was held between Obama's senior economic adviser -- Austan Goolsbee -- and the Canadian Consulate General in Chicago.

    Earlier Thursday, the Obama campaign insisted that no conversations have taken place with any of its senior ranks and representatives of the Canadian government on the NAFTA issue. On Thursday night, CTV spoke with Goolsbee, but he refused to say whether he had such a conversation with the Canadian government office in Chicago. He also said he has been told to direct any questions to the campaign headquarters.

    During a candidates' debate Tuesday, both Democratic party leadership contenders -- Obama and Hillary Clinton -- suggested they would opt out of the North American Free Trade Agreement if core labour and environmental standards weren't renegotiated.

    The CTV exclusive also reported that sources said the Clinton campaign has made indirect contact with the Canadian government, trying to reassure Ottawa of their support despite Clinton's words. The Clinton camp denied the claim. The story caught the attention of Republican front-runner John McCain on Thursday.

    "I don't think it's appropriate to go to Ohio and tell people one thing while your aide is calling the Canadian ambassador and telling him something else," McCain said, referring to Obama. "I certainly don't think that's straight talk."

    On Thursday, the Canadian embassy in Washington issued a complete denial.

    "At no time has any member of a presidential campaign called the Canadian ambassador or any official at the embassy to discuss NAFTA," it said in a statement.

    But on Wednesday, one of the primary sources of the story, a high-ranking member of the Canadian embassy, gave CTV more details of the call. He even provided a timeline. He has since suggested it was perhaps a miscommunication.

    The denial from the embassy was followed by a denial from Senator Obama.

    "The Canadian government put out a statement saying that this was just not true, so I don't know who the sources were," said Obama.

    Sources at the highest levels of the Canadian government -- who first told CTV that a call was made from the Obama camp -- have reconfirmed their position.

    NDP Leader Jack Layton said in question period Thursday that Canada should take advantage of any openings to renegotiate NAFTA.

    "Why won't the prime minister take the lead here, exercise some sovereignty and bring about some change here that would be good for workers?" he asked.

    However, Harper had a warning to anyone contemplating renegotiation of the trade deal.

    "If a future president actually did want to open up NAFTA, which I highly doubt, then Canada would obviously have some things we would want to discuss," Harper said.

    But Harper also noted that assertions made in the heat of political campaigns should be taken with a grain of salt. During the federal election in 1993, former prime minister Jean Chretien threatened to back out of NAFTA's precursor -- the Free Trade Agreement, which was signed by the Tories in the 1980s. [/rquoter]
     
  18. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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  19. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    basso is not as open to her candidacy as he is to Obama's! ;)
     
  20. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Well to be fair, this was the first sentance of the post

     

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