Well, hey all you war supporters, you may get your chance. A vote for Bush is a vote for the draft. ************* Senator says US may need compulsory service to boost Iraq force WASHINGTON (AFP) Apr 20, 2004 A senior Republican lawmaker said Tuesday that deteriorating security in Iraq may force the United States to reintroduce the military draft. "There's not an American ... that doesn't understand what we are engaged in today and what the prospects are for the future," Senator Chuck Hagel told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on post-occupation Iraq. "If that's the case, why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?" Hagel said, arguing that restoring compulsory military service would force "our citizens to understand the intensity and depth of challenges we face." The Nebraska Republican added that a draft, which was ended in the early 1970s, would spread the burden of mililitary service in Iraq more equitably among various social strata. "Those who are serving today and dying today are the middle class and lower middle class," he observed. The call to consider a imposing a draft comes just days after the Pentagon moved to extend the missions of some 20,000 US troops in Iraq. Some critics of the US-led occupation complain that military planners used too few troops to subdue Iraq, and insist that more military muscle will be needed to restore order. link
The draft idea was already brought up and pretty much got shot down. It won't happen. Even if it does, I'm inelligible, although I might try a two year stint.......the pay isn't bad though. You can make pretty good money if you are deployed.
Its probably obvious that I'm totally against the invasion and occupation of Iraq but I agree with Hagel. Our military is too disproportionately dominated by the poor and minorities while the leadership in almost all sectors of our society is affluent and white. I get the feeling that many support the war in Iraq because they have a sense that they won't have to serve nor will there friends and family. Take our government for instance. I recall hearing that in the top levels of executive branch and in all of Congress there are maybe only two who have family actively serving in the military. If a broader section of society had to serve I think more people would be cautious about using our military. Sometime I get the feeling that many consider our troops expendable so they are willing to send them into battle on mere speculation.
All due respect, but I really don't think you know what you talking about here. The Draft has been gone for so long that too many people have forgotten what it was like, who really served, and what kind of military it produced. Trust me... you wouldn't like it.
I believe every elligible male should be required to serve at least 2 years. By the way, the military is not dominated by minorities. There are many many intelligent people in the military. Alot of people join the military to pay off their college loans. Alot join to serve and others join just to join, but there are quite a few intelligent people joining, especially in the last 10 years.
Ummm...I'm sincerely hoping that you didn't mean the second sentance as a furtherance for the first, but reading the whole post, it's hard to imagine another interpretation...
Sorry, I was responding to an earlier post. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was saying minorities are dumb. Generally, it is viewed that poor people do blue collar jobs or join the military because they cannot afford a higher education, thus my statement about intelligence. I should have clarified what I was getting at. The minorities and intelligent matters were two separate things. By the way, you're on the left, aren't you?
No one has been forced to go into the military in the past 30 years. I'll bet if you look at who goes into service for the trash company you would find that it is also dominated by the poor. These people that go into the military make a choice to do so. For many, it is an opportunity and a way out of poverty. It's a way for many people that want to change their lives have a chance to. So don't use that as an excuse for why we need the draft.
A) Intelligence and education, while probably having some correlation, are not synonomous. B) Not really.
Isn't it often the rich that are the ones that can avoid the draft? (i.e., can move to another country or get the cushy positions?) How about just a draft those children of those making over $200,000?
Certainly, were there ever a draft, it would need to have several loop-holes removed, and the Board would have to be held to extreme standards of impartiality. I actually would support the idea of every citizen having to put in a couple of years of service to their country, military and otherwise. I think the freedoms assosciated with citizenship should come with a correlative burden of responsibility. The problem is that, whether we engage in this excerise via a draft, or merely through taxes, it is and always has been implemented by those in power, and as such has always been structured in such a way that those in power are the ones least likely to have to pull their weight. Until that problem is fixed, any system like a draft or an even more extrme version like the one I advocate would just be another means for the haves to exploit the have nots.
MacBeth, why do you, too, want to argue for the sake of arguing? I have met very few morons with an education that are in the military although I have met many idiots without an education. Not really? Explain how you have come to the conclusion of "not really."
A) I don't. B) Personal experience used to make generalizations is discredited for many reasons, among them limited scope and inherent bias. This your conclusions about the necesary correlation between intelligence and education mean nothing. C) How shall I explain it? I am not really on the left, either by the global, original standard, or even that weighted to the right used in the US. I am all over the map, and don't lean more one way than the other, at least not with any exteme consistencyIt would be impossible to prove my point, but I'll give a few examples and you can decide: Have voted Rep in 5 of the last 6 Presidential elections, including the last one. Am opposed to abortion. Am opposed to affirmative action. As mentioned previously, would support a madated serviuce for all citizens. Supported first Gulf War. Etc. etc. It is easy for people who allow their political bias to shape their opinions to assume that others do likewise, hence the fact that you know I oppose this war expelins perfectly to me why you assume I lean to the left. But I am against Bush and the war on their merits, not on my precoceptions, as I obviously supported him originally, and am not agiaint war merely for it's own sake.
Okay, your "not really" thing was a bit unclear to me. I didn't know what you were responding to. I don't understand where you are going with your argument. I am talking about one thing, and you want to turn it into "education and intelligence are not the same."
the title of the thread pretty much screams "War supporters, better ignore this one," if you see T_J in here, he'll just say something about liberal propaganda or whatever.
While its true that the draft wasn't very fair and thankfully for me they weren't drafting infants in the last draft. That said if you look at what happened in Vietnam was that opposition really turned when you could no longer get an exemption because you went to college. At that time going to college wasn't as common as it is now and was almost exclusively the domain of the middle and upper class. Since even more people go to college now its likely that a draft will include those who go to college and will probably be set up to capture a much wider range of economic classes since that will be one of the key political issues to get one passed. I firmly believe that when it comes to providing our defense a shared burden through the draft is best thing both because it implys a collective sacrifice for our defense and also because it will make people realize what it means to go to war when its not just other people who are primarily poor and minority going to fight. But in a way that is a draft already since for many poor people the only way for educational or career advancement is through the draft. That's why Jessica Lynch joined the military and apparently most of her West Virginia town is the same way. For those of us who came from a family well off enough to send us to a good college we never had to consider that the only way to get a college education was to go to the military. If I was I'm pretty sure I would join the military. So while the military is voluntarily in many ways there is a soft draft because that is the only way to get out of poverty. I understand that no one wants to be forced into the military and I don't say I support the idea of a draft lightly. I'm doing OK right now, have a masters degree, run a small business and have career and other opportunities. I'm not married but plan to eventually and have a family. That said I've decided that if I was called for duty, even to go to Iraq, I would do it. If called upon I would feel that I owned this country too much to say no.
