http://www.resistnet.com/forum/topics/reid-pushes-carbon-tax-before "Cap and Trade = Comprehensive Energy bill = "Carbon Tax" Reid and the Democrats are fast-tracking Obama's "Carbon Tax" to double ALL your energy costs. A VOTE IS SCHEDULED BY JULY 4TH 2010 Reid plans a Senate Vote to raise taxes for Obama with the NEW "Carbon Tax". Why you ask because as Rahm Emmanuel said "NEVER WASTE A CRISIS!" and Reid promised Obama they would push the "Carbon Tax". Reid will by-pass the existing Lieberman-Kerry Bill pushed through the House by Pelosi because Reid knows he doesn't have the support of Democrats on his own side, let alone GOP Senators, to get it done. Reid demanded "swift" action forcing Senate committees to finish their work on a massive comprehensive energy bill immediately. Committee leaders Max Baucus, Jeff Bingaman, Barbara Boxer, Chris Dodd, Patrick Leahy, Joe Lieberman, Blanche Lincoln and John Rockefeller all received the majority leader's letter demanding action." Reading this makes me puke. Most Americans have their heads turned towards the oil spill that they aren't even aware of this!
Just to clear something up - a lot of people say "taxes are going to double the price we pay for [x]!" or "these penalties on corporations are going to cause all of us to pay more!" Bull****. The only time we pay double the price or pay more for something when that corporations running the show are being penalized for malfeasance or taxed at a greater rate is when the individuals who run the CORPORATIONS THEMSELVES raise their prices - and the fact is, in terms of energy production and just about everything else, the corporations continually raise their prices anyway without any fees or tax increases - so **** them. Just pointing out that this is not some automatic mechanism that results from a tax increase or penalty - it only arises when boards and shareholders decide they need to increase and/or maintain their profits at our expense. This is not an example of the mythical "invisible hand" at work - this results from the greed of individuals and the actions that these individuals take to preserve their market dominance - it does not result from some mysterious process that runs the market. There is no mysterious process.
A straight up carbon tax, preferably phased in over time, would be a good thing. Cap & Trade is Wall Street BS. Arbitrarily picking & choosing who has a 'right' to pollute & to sell that 'right' to others. A straight carbon tax, x pounds of carbon = y dollars cost, is direct & addresses the point precisely, without evading real action for decades while the planet burns. If there are some kind of essential industries that will be crippled by it they may be given some slack until viable technologies can be found/created.
Similar to the health debate, wingers now "love" the more liberal option (single payer) than the proposed plan that was conceived as a compromise (individual mandate). Partisan politics is pretty wild. Oppose everything and boost the alternative as the better option.
Cap and trade is a terrible plan. Europe already has a plan like this in place and they pay almost three times as much as we do for gas and diesel. I had to go to France last year for a business trip. When I left, gas was about $2.10 to $2.20 a gallon. When I first landed in Paris I was seeing gas for $1.35 to $1.45 and my first thought was wow it is actually cheaper. After further investigation I realized it was 1.35 to 1.45 per liter. It takes 3.7 liters to make a US gallon. 3.7 x 1.35 = 4.99. I then realized it was worse then that because this was in Euros. At the time it took about $1.30 to buy 1 Euro. So 4.99 X $1.30 = $6.49 a gallon when we were paying a little over $2.00. Does anyone really want to pay this much for gas? It would also make electricity go up and would cause inflation everywhere because it takes energy to make products and to ship products. People who support this crazy "cap and trade" or more accurately "cap and tax" plan do not realize what they are doing. This would be bad for everyone.
I will also add that every time the government makes a mandate on carbons, it causes the price to rise. If everyone remembers, diesel fuel used to be cheaper than gasoline. A few years ago the government mandated that the the sulfur in diesel had to be less than 15 PPM. This caused the price of diesel to be higher than gasoline. It also causes problems in diesel engines because the sulfur adds to the lubricating ability of diesel so the lower sulfur products can cause more wear in a diesel engine when they are used. Business need to be environmentally responsible and need government oversight to make sure they comply but it can get ridiculous. Most of this crap is done because of global warming. In recent months there has been a lot of things proving that the researchers who try to prove global warming are way overstating their findings. Besides, mother nature herself produces way more greenhouse gasses than human beings.
Gas is definitely more expensive in Europe but that has almost nothing to do with cap and trade programs. Association does not equate to causation.
It certainly doesn't help. I went over there before all these major problems they are having in April 2009. The reason they are in trouble is because they are spending way more money then they are taking in. The USA is doing the same thing and I worry that we are heading for a similar fate. The way we are spending money is unsustainable.
They have a passenger train system that is more like an above ground subway that a lot of people use for traveling between cities. They also have some bullet trains however I never saw one. I did not spend much time in Paris so I am not sure about public transportation there but I imagine they have subways. I did take a train from Paris to Le Havre. The train was rather expensive but it was nice. The French countryside was beautiful. On a side note, when I took a taxi from the airport to the train station, I have never been so scared in my life. That taxi driver was crazy, weaving in and out of traffic barely missing cars. I said a few prayers during that trip. When I arrived back in Paris and was taking a taxi back to the airport, there was a massive traffic jam and it took a long time to get there. In the traffic jam there were lots people on mopeds and motorcycles weaving in and out of the barely moving and stopped cars. These people were insane with how fast the were weaving in and out. It was a miracle that I did not see a wreck.
I should have added to my last post that Le Havre, France does not have a very good public transportation system. I ended up leasing a car. Driving in France is quite different because I could not read any of the signs and all the speed limits were in kilometers per hour which makes it hard to have a common frame of reference. I wish I would have brought a GPS system with a European package. It would have made things easier. I was within 50 miles of the place where our troops stormed the beach in Normandy. I really wanted o go see this but was scared to go because I could not read the street signs and there were very few people who spoke English to ask directions if I would have gotten lost. I was really surprised with how few people spoke English or possibly there were a lot of people who would not admit to it.
We're borrowing and spending too much, not producing and saving enough. This won't help, it serves no purpose whatsoever, won't change the climate one iota.
diesel has gone up in the recent past because increased demand on regular causing refiners to make less diesel and more regular, causing a supply drop in diesel.
Productivity generates tax revenue, you can't tax your way out of deficits, certainly not in a recession. Europe is learning this and are taking appropriate measures, we are like 5 years behind the curve.
As with any that comes out of Congress, Cap'n Trade will be convoluted by lobbyist so that the power brokers make tons of money, the purpose gets circumvented and the people get screwed. The easiest simplest thing would be to just ramp up a $20 a barrel import fee on all oil delivered to US ports of entry. Foreign oil gets more expensive relative to domestic oil and alternative energies. The cash flow goes directly to the government coffers. But noooooooooooo, Shortsightedness is the weakness of capitalism. I tried to post The Daily Show clip of all the Presidents back to Nixon promising an energy independence policy but it wouldn't play for me. It is a great historical look at the failure of both parties. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future
Really? Well, we do know that you can tax cut your way out of a surplus, that's for sure. I mean, we actually kind of did it. Anyway, the level of arse-clownism in even the few zombie-esque repetitions from Reagonicms that you have given us thus far is rife with legion of misinformation and just plain old dumbness. To that end, is there really any even a point in explaining it? Tell you what, rather than make this a big thing, why don't you try to give me a brief summation (bullet point format preferred) of the assumptions that you have regarding taxes, deficits, etc. Thx.
