How do you all feel about the impending Alex Rodriguez trade? What exactly is the point of basically losing both Manny Ramirez and Nomar Garciaparra for A-Rod? Nomar has been a franchise icon and offense wasn't exactly Boston's achilles heel last year. They pretty much have to do it now that they have gone and alienated Nomar, but what is the point? Why not just add Schilling and Foulke and call it an offseason having addressed your major needs?
Well, the main reason is that Manny is a f'n whiny, malcontent chump. The guy is an absolute cancer, and the Sox already tried waiving him outright, but nobody claimed him.
Dallas TV reports the A-Rod deal is off... then takes it back ============================= A-Rod trade talks heat up again Rangers owner says decision could come 'in the next few days' 12:05 AM CST on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 By EVAN GRANT and KEN DALEY / The Dallas Morning News NEW ORLEANS – The Rangers' mega deal with Boston that would send Alex Rodriguez to the Red Sox seems to be taking shape like a jigsaw puzzle after the complicated border is arranged. As baseball's Winter Meetings broke up Monday, Rangers management headed back to Texas having to digest a lot before possibly committing to a deal that would send Rodriguez to Boston for Manny Ramirez. More than a month in the making, a deal could be announced before the end of the week. "We're at a sensitive point," Rangers owner Tom Hicks said. "We'll know in the next few days how this is going to come out." If a deal is completed, it would be the first time a reigning MVP was traded. It would also be an exchange of the players with the two largest average annual salaries. After a couple of days of cooling off, Hicks and Boston counterpart John Henry re-engaged in talks. "Both teams were concerned a week ago as this thing got way too much momentum in the media for where we were all at," Hicks said Monday. "We agreed we'd renew conversations after the Winter Meetings, and we started that process today." Rodriguez's agent Scott Boras said: "The owners are talking, but we're not really privy to what they are saying. It's their transaction." Sentiment among the throngs of baseball executives departing the meetings seemed to swing back toward thinking a deal would be made. The biggest obstacles in getting the deal done have been the huge amount of money involved and refusals from all parties involved to compromise. Those obstacles could be crumbling. Hicks has demanded $5 million per year over the life of Ramirez's contract, which would save him $100 million on the value of Rodriguez's contract. Boston has remained adamant it would not subsidize Ramirez's salary, but Hicks remained just as firm Monday that financial considerations must be part of any deal. Rodriguez, who enters the fourth year of a 10-year, $252 million contract, has not been willing to restructure his deal. According to reports Monday, though, Rodriguez was talking with representatives from the Players Association about creating some flexibility in his contract. One possibility might be for the Rangers to get added value in the form of pitching. The Chicago White Sox are among the teams expressing an interest in Boston reliever Scott Williamson. The White Sox have an excess of starting pitching, including Jon Rauch, Scott Schoeneweis and Danny Wright. Boston could deal with Chicago, then include the pitcher it receives as inducement to reduce the Rangers' cash demands. As far back as 10 days ago, one Rangers official suggested the team might have to settle for $3 million to $4 million per year instead. The Rangers were fast at work looking for potential middle infield fill-ins should a deal be completed. Before Rangers officials left the headquarters hotel Monday afternoon, the representatives for free-agent infielders Tony Womack and Todd Walker hovered nearby. Rangers officials met briefly with Walker's agent. Signing Walker would allow the team to move Michael Young to shortstop and play Walker, who grew up in Bossier City, La., at second. It's uncertain if Womack, who had knee surgery in the fall, will be healthy enough to play at the start of the season. If the Rangers deal Rodriguez, they could also get in the mix for Rich Aurilia, the last remaining high profile free-agent shortstop on the market. "We have a lot of options," GM John Hart said. Hicks said Monday he has no problems with Rodriguez remaining in Arlington, even after the shortstop's recent comments about his affinity for playing in Fenway Park. "Alex is a great player," Hicks said. "He'd like to contend for a World Series next year or the year after, but he'd also be very happy here and he'd be happy to be back as our team leader." link (registration required)
well i absolutely like this trade, and most people i talk to around here like it as well. A-Rod is awesome, a huge upgrade over Nomar in offense and defense. Manny is just tough to deal with, I mean the guy can hit, but you know he doesn't bring it everyday. Now if we could get magglio ordonez (probably too expensive) this would be a dream.
cabbage, It is hard to explain in a couple of sentences as several factors are involved here. I will try to summarize it as short as I can. The first part involves Manny: there is no question that he is one of the greatest hitters of today and a probable hall-of-famer, but the guy, as much as I love him, is in his own little world. David Ortiz, one of his best friends, has admitted that it is hard to read what is going on with the guy. Pedro, another buddy, even said that "Manny is cuckoo; he is in la-la land", lol. Add to the fact that he had the incident with Enrique Wilson and the whole fiasco of the sore throat that prevented him from pinch-hitting and it was obvious that his act had worn thin on Theo Epstein, John Henry, and Larry Lucchino (the top Red Sox mgmt guys). But there is more to it than that, actually 2 things - the first is that Manny was signed in the winter of 2000 by former GM, Dan Duquette. This new mgmt team has tried very hard to place their stamp on the team with the acquisitions of Millar, Mueller, Ortiz (from last year) and now Schilling and Foulke. To them they see Manny as a last ditch effort by Dan Duquette to try to keep his job and they would like to cut ties with the old regime, so to speak, and getting rid of Ramirez would do that. But the other part of this involves Garciaparra. Nomar was offered a 4 year deal worth 15 million a year during spring training last season (supposedly). At the time, he and his agent, this ******* named Arn Tellem, rejected it. They thought he was worth more and Henry and company told them that "there was a market correction" and that this is "not the winter of 2000", lol, the same winter that saw ARod and Manny sign their deals. So, they came back with a 4 year deal worth 12 million. But here comes the dumbass Orioles throwing a boatload of money at Miguel Tejada. Apparently, Peter Angelos didn't get the memo that it is no longer the winter of 2000. Now, you look at the fact that Nomar has not been the same player since the wrist injury, struggled mightily in this past postseason, and has never been the spokesperson superstar with the media that this new mgmt has coveted (neither has Manny or Pedro in that regard, though). But there are so many other guys that the Sox have to decide on with their contracts like Ortiz, Nixon, Lowe, Varitek, Williamson, Kim, etc. Granted, some of them could be traded (like Williamson and/or Kim) but add in that Pedro's contract expires at the end of this upcoming season plus new contracts for Schilling and Foulke and there is no way that the Sox could meet Nomar and his agent's demand for such a big deal. It could possibly cost them some of these other guys who are important to the team. Now, the fact that ARod has been unhappy in Texas (he never should have taken that contract) and mentioned that he wanted to play in either New York or Boston made the wheels start to turn that maybe that would be the solution. I mean it would suck to see Nomar play out 2004 in Boston and then leave the team as a FA like Tejada did to Oakland. Now to obtain ARod, you obviously need to get rid of one of your worst contracts and that is where Manny falls into place. So another reason to get rid of Ramirez is indirectly related to Nomar and ARod in that to take on the biggest contract of the game, you have to get rid of one of the next biggest contracts of the game in Ramirez' contract. Add to the fact that Henry and company are drooling over the possibility of ARod being such a visible figure for the community, that the guy will probably hit over 700 homers in his career and could break the HR record while in a Boston uniform and you can see why they want to get him. So, it all has to do with other players' contracts. If Boston gets ARod and wants to keep guys like Nixon, Ortiz, Lowe, Varitek, Pedro, etc, they have to move both Nomar and Manny. The latest I have heard, which does not thrill me, is that supposedly Manny goes to Texas for ARod and Nomar goes to LA for a prospect SP named Miller and maybe another prospect AND then those 2 prospects go to Texas!! And I think the Rangers are going to get cash as well ! This pisses me off because the Rangers are the ones that need this deal done more than the Sox, but Nomar has placed them in a tough spot, I guess. Supposedly, they are still going to deal Williamson or Kim or both for a LF - some of the names being mentioned on Sons of Sam Horn (I don't post there even though I have applied - too damn exclusive) are Geoff Jenkins (blech - too injury prone), Magglio Ordonez, Jim Edmonds, and Bobby Abreu. Don't know who is going to play 2B but I have a hard time believing it is going to be Mark Bellhorn.
jim edmonds is a beast. if the sox get him you move damon to left field and have edmonds play center. too bad i'm a cardinals fan too, i don't really want them to let edmonds go. he's a highlight of the team. now magglio -- that what you have to go for. A-Rod + Magglio >>>>>>>>>>>> Nomar + Manny Magglio is the type that can really thrive in an already good lineup.
Looking at the contract numbers I am stupified as to why the owners would leverage so much money on one player. The numbers on A-Rod are staggering. To bad baseball isnt like football where the contracts are not guaranteed. Comparing the Deals Year Ramirez Rodriguez 2004 $20.5 million ($4M deferred) $21 million ($3M deferred) 2005 $20 million ($4M deferred) $25 million ($4M deferred) 2006 $19 million ($4M deferred) $25 million ($4M deferred) 2007 $18 million ($4M deferred) $27 million ($4M deferred) 2008 $20 million ($4M deferred) $27 million ($3M deferred) 2009 ($20 million option) $27 million ($3M deferred) 2010 ($20 million option) $27 million ($3M deferred) Totals:$97.5 million ($20M deferred) $179 million ($24M deferred) Ramirez gets $1 million if he's traded, increasing his amount remaining to $98.5 million. Rodriguez can opt out of the final three years of his contract, which could (theoretically, at least) reduce the amount remaining on his contract to $98 million. Both have numerous award incentives, the biggest of which would be a $1-million payout to Rodriguez should he win one more MVP award, or $1.5 million should he win the MVP award a second time (and for each one thereafter).
Manny Ramirez is such a space case that his bat just doesn't make up for it. I don't know if the number support it, but he also seems to choke at the plate when the heat is on. Not to mention he doesn't seem to be aware that it take three outs to end an inning. Nomar has to go. After the way he has been talked about in Boston he should demand to either be traded or released. The BoSox management really handled this situation poorly. But on Nomar's part, he really should have accepted that offer back in the spring. Contracts can always be renegotiated if you can prove your worth it. I've heard that the Angles and Dodgers are both interested in him so they should be able to get something decent for him. Since Nomar has to go, you have to get A-Rod. He is the premier SS freeagent. If Boston losses the A-Rod race they will be the lossers of the off-season.
Now there's unconfirmed rumors around that Nick Johnson failed his physical with the Expos due to a wrist problem, which could void the Vasquez trade. It's been a great off-season for Sox fans and Yankee haters alike, but it could get better.
Johnson passes Expos physical; Vazquez to Yanks completed Dec. 16, 2003 SportsLine.com wire reports NEW YORK -- The New York Yankees completed their Dec. 4 trade with Montreal for pitcher Javier Vazquez when first baseman Nick Johnson passed his physical for the Expos on Tuesday.
A-Rod isn't a free agent. The Cursed Sox would be trading for him. Pimpstradamas prophesizes that if this rumored deal goes down, it somehow blows up in their faces. I just have a hunch.
nomar and manny were just traded to the astros for biggio and bagwell. what the f*uck im pissed. were never going to make the playoffs again.
I hate the trade. Although Manny may be a cancer in the clubhouse, I think Pedro is worse but people don't want to run him out of town. Carl Everett was much worse and they got rid of him. Manny is not that bad and he puts up great numbers. Nomar is a staple of this franchise. This team was freaking 5 outs away from the World Series. They may not have beaten the Marlins, but we will never know that. It was a small managerial mistake that cost them. Not their defnse at shortstop or their hitting. A-rod may hit 60 homers at fenway, But Theo better have a plan on how to get those RBI's hes losing by getting rid of 2 all star players for one. They have a great pitching staff but I do not know how well they will do without Manny's power, and Nomar's ability to hiit for average, power, and situational hitting. Nomar may have slumped at the end of the season; but he is still the second best all around shortstop in the game. If the market is clear that Nomar will not get more than 12 mill a year why dont they just sing him to that and put A-rod at third and put Mueller at second. I am excited that in my senior year in Boston I may see an Astros Red Sox world series. But the fact that Nomar may not be here for it, hurts
They are supposed to deal Williamson and/or Kim for a LF, possibly Geoff Jenkins, Magglio Ordonez, Bobby Abreu, or even Jim Edmonds. Also, they can't re-sign Nomar at 12 million a year and expect to bring back guys like Ortiz, Trot Nixon, Lowe, Varitek, and Pedro, especially with new additions like Foulke and Schilling. The bottom line is that the wrist injury screwed Nomar's career. The guy will still be a hall-of-famer, but I don't know if he will ever put up the numbers that he was putting up before he got hurt.
Alex Rodriguez: Career OBP: .382 Career OPS: .963 Career Range Factor: 4.63 Nomar Garciaparra: Career OBP: .370 Career OPS: .925 Career Range Factor: 4.54 Furthermore... Manny Ramirez: Career OBP: .413 Career OPS: 1.011 A huge upgrade at SS? Hardly. It's basically the ONLY upgrade possible at shortstop. If you disregard the hype generated by his power numbers, ARod is only slightly better than Nomar in offensive production, and only fractionally better in fielding. Not worth losing a player that is a complete monster offensively like Manny. If we were getting the 2000 ARod that drew 100 walks and got on base at a clip of .420, then I would consider the deal. But the current ARod has sacrificed being a good hitter for the flashy power numbers. He strikes out at an alarming pace while not drawing that many walks. Don't buy into the hype. Don't do the trade John Henry, the team right now is a WS team. Don't mess this up.
I don't get why people are acting like Nomar had a bad or even an off year. He put up numbers that were very close to career highs in many categories last season. For once I am with Nomar(the poster). One of the reasons I am predicting these moves to be bad for Boston is because of too many changes. I don't think A-Rod is that big of an upgrade from Nomar. These guys were close to going to the WS. Don't tinker with something that isn't broken. And this coming from a huge Yankee fan.
Sorry, your right. I just keep hearing about him moving so much that I forget he still under contract.
