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[Reason] Senator Schumer Goes Nuclear With "No King Act"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Aug 1, 2024.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://reason.com/volokh/2024/08/01/senator-schumer-goes-nuclear-with-no-king-act/

    Senator Schumer Goes Nuclear With "No King Act"
    The law would direct lower courts how to reject claims of presidential immunity, and strip SCOTUS of appellate review.

    JOSH BLACKMAN | 8.1.2024 5:43 PM

    Very little actually surprises me anymore. Even something unexpected is generally within some range of possibility that I anticipated. The "No Kings Act," which was introduced today by Senate Majority Leader, surprised me. No, just not surprised. It stunned me. I was actually speechless.

    At a high level, the statute purports to reverse Trump v. United States, eliminate criminal presidential immunity (but not civil), and divests the Supreme Court of appellate jurisdiction over any prosecution of a former President, or even a challenge to the statute itself.

    Let's walk through the bill. Section 2 explains that the "purpose" of the law is to "clarify that a President or Vice President is not entitled to any form of immunity from criminal prosecution for violations of the criminal laws of the United States unless specified by Congress." Clarify? That statement expressly conflicts with the holding of Trump. And Section 3 provides, "A President, former President, Vice President, or former Vice President shall not be entitled to any form of immunity (whether absolute, presumptive, or otherwise) from criminal laws of the United States unless specified by Congress." This statement flatly contradicts how a majority of the Supreme Court interpreted Article II.

    Curiously, the statute says nothing at all about civil immunity under Nixon v. Fitzgerald. Apparently that made-up immunity, which was the basis of Chief Justice Roberts's decision, is A-Okay. Also, nothing in Trump even hinted that the Vice President has immunity. This provision could have some unintended consequences for the Vice President acting as President of the Senate, who (under modern law) receives some protections under the Speech or Debate Clause.

    It gets worse, The law provides that federal courts "may not consider whether an alleged violation of any criminal laws of the United States committed by a President or Vice President was within the conclusive or preclusive constitutional authority of a President or Vice President or was related to the official duties of a President or Vice President unless directed by Congress." If taken literally, this statute directs lower courts to not follow binding Supreme Court precedent–they cannot consider the exact thing that the Supreme Court said must be considered. If only Republicans responded this way to Planned Parenthood v. Casey: federal courts "may not consider' whether a law imposes a substantial burden on access to abortion. That would have been so simple!

    Congress is certainly free to make such statements. It is a coordinate department of government that is entitled to interpret the Constitution. But unless we are willing to cross the rubicon of judicial supremacy, lower courts would be required to ignore Congress and follow SCOTUS. Now don't get me wrong. I despise Cooper v. Aaron. If it takes Trump Derangement Syndrome to blow up judicial supremacy, then that may have been worth it. I think of Heath Ledger as the Joker walking away from the exploding hospital. But Schumer doesn't quite have the chutzpah to go that far. Instead, he proposes a ham-handed way of playing keep-away from John Roberts.

    Section 4 of the law modifies judicial review of "any criminal proceeding commenced by the United States" against a President or former President. Actions can be brought in the applicable district court. But here comes the kicker: the judgment of the court of appeals with regard to immunity is final!

    "The Supreme Court of the United States shall have no appellate jurisdiction, on the basis that an alleged criminal act was within the conclusive or preclusive constitutional authority of a President or Vice President or on the basis that an alleged criminal act was related to the official duties of a President or Vice President."

    A conviction of the President of the United States would stop with the inferior courts, and most likely, the D.C. Circuit, which by the way, will have a Democratic-appointed majority for at least the next two decades or so. If only President Reagan had thought of this idea when he had appointed the majority of judges on that court!

    What else can SCOTUS not do? The bill lists eight items that the Supreme Court cannot do it itself, or direct other courts to do:​

    (A) dismiss an indictment or any other charging instrument;

    (B) grant acquittal or dismiss or otherwise terminate a criminal proceeding;

    (C) halt, suspend, disband, or otherwise impede the functions of any grand jury;

    (D) grant a motion to suppress or bar evidence or testimony, or otherwise exclude information from a criminal proceeding;

    (E) grant a writ of habeas corpus, a writ of coram nobis, a motion to set aside a verdict or judgment, or any other form of post-conviction or collateral relief;

    (F) overturn a conviction;

    (G) declare a criminal proceeding unconstitutional; or

    (H) enjoin or restrain the enforcement or application of a law.

    This is breathtaking. If Attorney General Garland were to lock up Donald Trump at Guantanamo Bay, and the D.C. Circuit looks the other way, the Supreme Court would have no habeas power to release him. I'm old enough to remember debates about the Suspension Clause and jurisdiction stripping from the Bush era. Democrats apparently favor full the full panoply of habeas rights for the mastermind of 9/11, but not for Trump. Priorities. If only Lincoln had such powers! John Merryman and William McCardle could not be reached for comment.

    more

     
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  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    conclusion

    So what should the judiciary do with such a statute? Well, the bill imposes strict limits on whether these restrictions can even be challenged. Facial challenges must be brought within "180 days after the date of enactment of this Act." As I think about the Court's "facial" analysis in Rahimi and NetChoice, I cringe. Certainly this statute must have some constitutional application? So a facial challenge would fail, right? What if the President breaks the law on Etsy?

    And if President Harris wins, and lets this statute go into effect, a facial challenge could never be brought. To test the constitutionality of this statute, future Presidents would have to wait to be indicted, after they leave office. A facial challenge would no longer be possible. Everyone who criticized Whole Woman's Health v. Jackson and S.B. 8 can switch sides. I can think of standing arguments why a sitting President would be able to challenge this law in office, notwithstanding its limitations–talk about a chilling effect–but I'll save those points for another time.

    And an as-applied challenge "may only be brought not later than 90 days after the date of such enforcement or application." I don't even know when this clock would start ticking. If a former President is indicted, and a district court (following this statute) denies immunity, would the defendant then bring a collateral civil challenge to the statute in federal court? Wouldn't there be abstention doctrines at play? Wouldn't it make the most sense to consider the immunity issue on direct appeal–and that appeal would necessarily consider the constitutionality of the "No King Act"? Even under Justice Barrett's conception of immunity, the denial of immunity would trigger an interlocutory appeal. Maybe I'm missing something, but I have no idea how an as-applied challenge would even work here.

    Let's say that a former President manages to bring some sort of as-applied challenge in a timely fashion in the right court. The statute even purports to define the appropriate standard of review: "A court of the United States shall presume that a provision of this Act (including this section) or the enforcement or application of any such provision is constitutional unless it is demonstrated by clear and convincing evidence that such provision or its enforcement or application is unconstitutional." A presumption of constitutionality, coupled with a "clear and convincing evidence" standard! James Bradley Thayer and Oliver Wendell Holmes would be proud.

    Is there any other similar statute that directs the courts to apply a particular standard of review? Some of the bills to "overrule" Loper Bright direct Courts to apply Chevron deference. That could work under the APA (assuming Justice Thomas is wrong on whether Chevron is unconstitutional). But can Congress direct the courts how to interpret a claim of constitutional immunity? I think the Supreme Court would find this statute unconstitutional, but they would have no power to hear the case!

    Oh, and by the way, challenges to the statute itself can only be litigated in the District of Columbia District Court, and the D.C. Circuit. And the buck stops with Chief Judge Sri Srinivasan:

    In a civil action under this subsection, a decision of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit shall be final and not appealable to the Supreme Court of the United States.

    The Supreme Court of the United States shall have no appellate jurisdiction to declare any provision of this Act (including this section) unconstitutional or to bar or restrain the enforcement or application of any provision of this Act (including this section) on the ground of its unconstitutionality.
    More jurisdiction stripping!

    To be sure, this bill is prospective. We can imagine what an Attorney General Jeff Clark would do with this bill, right? Certainly this bill can't be about Trump, right? Ex Post Facto Clause, right? Wrong.

    If an action at the time of its commencement is not subject to subsection (a) or (b), but an amendment, counterclaim, cross-claim, affirmative defense, or any other pleading or motion is filed such that the action would be subject to subsection (a) or (b), the action shall thereafter be conducted pursuant to subsection (a) or (b), as applicable.
    Huh? Am I reading this right? Any existing criminal that is in effect now could be brought under the auspices of this bill. In other words, if any pleadings are made about immunity in Judge Cannon's court, she would then be required to reject an immunity claim? Could this be the rule?

    There is one provision that I can't quite make heads-or-tails of:

    No court may issue relief sua sponte on the ground that a provision of this Act (including this section), or its enforcement or application, is unconstitutional.
    What is going on here? I think this is hinting at an issue where some other federal court, hearing some related issue, may opine on the constitutionality of the statute.

    Perhaps the most brazen part of the bill is Section 6(b)(vi):

    All appeals from the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Amarillo Division, shall be taken to the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, which shall have exclusive jurisdiction to hear an appeal in a civil action under this subsection. This provision shall be known as the "Stealth Impeachment of Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk Law."
    No, Section 6(b)(vi) is not in the bill, but you believed it. And you better believe progressives will try to strip the Fifth Circuit of jurisdiction.

    ***
    Let me be clear. This bill has no chance of passage in the current Congress. And if Trump wins, I think the judiciary is safe for another four years. But if Harris prevails, and the Democrats have majorities in both houses, they will find a way to pass this bill. Remember, this is not some sort of fringe proposal from the Squad, but was introduced as a priority bill by the Majority Leader. The whirlwind cometh. Once the Supreme Court's jurisdiction is stripped for presidential immunity, it is only a matter of time before similar bills are passed for abortion, the Second Amendment, RFRA, and so on. This bottomless hole keeps going deeper.

    President Biden's pointless op-ed, which did not even bother to specify whether a statute could impose term limits, was apparently just a warm-up act. Senate Democrats are going all-in on destroying the judiciary as we know it. Remind me again how cataclysmic it was when Trump referred to "Obama judges"? I welcome comments from the Never-Trumpers who think Kamala Harris is the last chance to save our republic.

    JOSH BLACKMAN is a constitutional law professor at the South Texas College of Law Houston, an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute, and the President of the Harlan Institute. Follow him @JoshMBlackman.
     
    #2 Os Trigonum, Aug 1, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2024
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  3. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/No Kings Act - One Pager.pdf
    NO KINGS ACT
    Majority Leader Schumer​

    On July 1, 2024, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the most basic premise of our
    constitutional order—that no one is above the law. In deciding Trump v. the United
    States, the MAGA Supreme Court held that the President of the United States is entitled
    to an unprecedented level of immunity as long as he argues that he is acting in his official
    capacity as President. This brazen ruling contradicts American values, history, and the
    plain text of the Constitution. In The Federalist No. 69, Alexander Hamilton wrote that
    there must be a difference between the “sacred and inviolable” king of Great Britain and
    the U.S. President, who “would be amenable to personal punishment and disgrace”
    should his actions violate the law of the land. Nevertheless, the Supreme Court has
    ensured that, going forward, the President will be a king above the law. Thankfully,
    Congress has the constitutional authority—and duty—to check the Supreme Court when
    the justices err. No President should be above the law. The No Kings Act would affirm
    that the President is not immune to legal accountability.

    The No Kings Act would:

    Reaffirm that Presidents and Vice Presidents do not have immunity for
    actions that violate U.S. criminal law
    . No President or Vice President (former or
    sitting) would be entitled to immunity from criminal prosecution for actions that violate
    the criminal laws of the United States. The bill would clarify that Congress, not the
    Supreme Court, determines to whom federal criminal laws may be applied.

    Remove the Supreme Court’s appellate jurisdiction for all actions challenging
    the constitutionality of this legislation.
    The bill would allow Presidents and Vice
    Presidents to challenge the constitutionality of the No Kings Act in the United States
    District Court for the District of Columbia. Any appeal would be handled by the United
    States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. Using the Exceptions Clause
    of Article III of the Constitution, Congress would preclude the Supreme Court from
    hearing any appeals to these challenges. It would further remove the Supreme Court’s
    appellate jurisdiction to interfere with any criminal proceedings involving Presidents or
    Vice Presidents on the basis that an alleged criminal act was an official action.

    Establish additional jurisdictional and procedural guardrails. The bill would
    allow the United States to bring criminal actions against a President or Vice President in
    any applicable district court or the United States District Court for the District of
    Columbia. It would also create a presumption of constitutionality for the No Kings Act
    unless a party establishes its unconstitutionality with clear and convincing evidence.
    Lastly, the bill would create statutes of limitations of 180 days for facial constitutional
    challenges and 90 days for as-applied constitutional challenges.
     
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  4. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Following Historic & Dangerous Trump Immunity Ruling, Leader Schumer Led 34 Democratic Senators In Launching “No Kings Act” To Crack Down On Dangerous Precedent – To Eliminate Immunity For Presidents’ & VPs’ Crimes And Tap Into Congress’ Constitutional Authority To Restrict Judiciary Overreach
    Washington, D.C. – Today, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) led 34 of his Democratic Senate colleagues in introducing the No Kings Act, which would reaffirm that Presidents and Vice Presidents do not have immunity for actions that violate federal criminal law and clarify that Congress, not the Supreme Court, determines to whom federal criminal laws may be applied. The text of the No Kings Act can be seen here.

    The very basis of our democracy is the idea that no man is above the law. But on July 1st, 2024, the Supreme Court took the unprecedented step to overturn this most simple premise of our constitutional order. In response, Majority Leader Schumer is leading 34 of his Democratic Senate colleagues in introducing the No Kings Act, which would reaffirm that the President is not immune to legal accountability and remove the Supreme Court’s jurisdiction to hear appeals related to presidential immunity.

    “In a dangerous and devastating ruling, the MAGA Supreme Court has once again subverted the will of the American people, and the very idea of democracy itself,” said Leader Schumer. “The Founders were explicit – no man in America shall be a king. Yet, in their disastrous decision, the Supreme Court threw out centuries of precedent and anointed Trump and subsequent presidents as kings above the law. Given the dangerous and consequential implications of the Court’s ruling, legislation would be the fastest and most efficient method to correcting the grave precedent the Trump ruling presented. With this glaring and partisan overreach, Congress has an obligation – and a constitutional authority – to act as a check and balance to the judicial branch.”

    The No Kings Act would:
    1. Reaffirm that Presidents and Vice Presidents do not have immunity for actions that violate U.S. criminal law. No President or Vice President (former or sitting) would be entitled to immunity from criminal prosecution for actions that violate the criminal laws of the United States. The bill would clarify that Congress, not the Supreme Court, determines to whom federal criminal laws may be applied.
    2. Remove the Supreme Court’s appellate jurisdiction for all actions challenging the constitutionality of this legislation. The bill would allow Presidents and Vice Presidents to challenge the constitutionality of the No Kings Act in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia. Any appeal would be handled by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. Using the Exceptions Clause of Article III of the Constitution, Congress would preclude the Supreme Court from hearing any appeals to these challenges. It would further remove the Supreme Court’s appellate jurisdiction to interfere with any criminal proceedings involving Presidents or Vice Presidents on the basis that an alleged criminal act was an official action.
    3. Establish additional jurisdictional and procedural guardrails. The bill would allow the United States to bring criminal actions against a President or Vice President in any applicable district court or the United States District Court for the District of Columbia. It would also create a presumption of constitutionality for the No Kings Act unless a party establishes its unconstitutionality with clear and convincing evidence. Lastly, the bill would create statutes of limitations of 180 days for facial constitutional challenges and 90 days for as-applied constitutional challenges.
    Across American history, Congress has exercised its authority to legislate on constitutional matters. From civil rights to religion to regulating elections, Congress has often enacted federal statutes directly contravening constitutional decisions from the Supreme Court when lawmakers believed the Court misapplied the Constitution.

    This legislation currently has 34 co-sponsors: Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Mazie Hirono (D-HI), Brian Schatz (D-HI), Ben Ray Luján (D-NM), Jack Reed (D-RI), Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Tom Carper (D-DE), Peter Welch (D-VT), John Hickenlooper (D-CO), Bob Casey (D-PA), Chris Coons (D-DE), Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), Tammy Baldwin (D-WI), Jeff Merkley (D-OR), Ben Cardin (D-MD), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), Patty Murray (D-WA), Chris Van Hollen (D-MD), Ed Markey (D-MA), Tammy Duckworth (D-IL), Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), Laphonza Butler (D-CA), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Bernie Sanders (I-VT), Cory Booker (D-NJ), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Ron Wyden (D-OR), Angus King (I-ME), Martin Heinrich (D-NM), Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), Alex Padilla (D-CA), Gary Peters (D-MI), and Raphael Warnock (D-GA).
     
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  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    the only thing that's dangerous here is the Democratic Party
     
  6. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    But YOU are the Democratic Party.
     
  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    the Democratic Party has left me
     
  8. FranchiseBlade

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    I kind of like the idea that no man is above the law. Putting the president above the law is a dangerous precedent.
     
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  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    Schumer et al are declaring war on the Supreme Court
     
  10. FranchiseBlade

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    Checks and balances. Maybe they are overstepping, maybe they aren't. But this court has made some radical changes and precedents which are potentially dangerous.
     
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  11. Invisible Fan

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    Greasy Chuck loves these last-minute plays that eventually backfire.

    Like he should do these tricks at the beginning of the admin, or not at all....

    Right, instead of "declaring war", it's a return volley from years of scrote decisions explicitly telling Congress to be more activist.
     
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  12. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Maybe there’s some highly sophisticated legal theory that explains why giving a President blanket immunity for all criminal acts is somehow a good idea that is not incredibly dangerous. My common sense tells me otherwise.
     
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  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    https://societyfortheruleoflaw.org/600-sign-statement-of-principles-for-the-rule-of-law/

    The Society is a nationwide membership organization of legal conservatives and others of all political leanings who are alarmed at the current threats to American democracy. The “Statement of Principles to Preserve, Protect, and Defend the Constitution, the Rule of Law, and American Democracy” affirms that all American citizens — especially public officials charged with enacting and enforcing America’s laws — have a constitutional duty to:

    • Accept the legitimacy, respect the authority, and abide by the decisions and judgments of the federal courts interpreting the Constitution and laws of the United States
    • Respect the rule of law by honoring the truth and speaking against untruths that undermine respect for the Constitution, the rule of law, and the courts
    • Oppose efforts to undermine respect for the federal courts and the individual justices and judges who serve in the judiciary
    • Support and defend the fundamental American principle that no person is above, beneath, or beyond the law
    • Defend the constitutional rights of all Americans, respect the results of elections, and insist upon the peaceful transfer of power
     
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  14. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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  15. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    I see you b**** and complain but never willing to provide any solutions...it's pretty pathetic to be quite honest.
     
  16. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    If you believe the Democratic Party is dangerous, why would you want the POTUS, who may be a Democrat, to have absolute immunity from crimes?
     
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  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    they are overstepping, by quite a bit

    I disagree
     
  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    clearly you haven't read a thing about the Trump decision
     
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    again, the Trump decision does not establish "absolute" immunity for (all) crimes:

    Held: Under our constitutional structure of separated powers, the nature of Presidential power entitles a former President to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclu- sive constitutional authority. And he is entitled to at least presump- tive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts. There is no immunity for unofficial acts. Pp. 5–43.
    The decision simply affirms the long-standing understanding of presidential immunity for official acts.
     
    #19 Os Trigonum, Aug 2, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2024
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    So if a president believes right wing fascist death squads should be funded through sales of arms to a foreign adversary like Iran because they really believe that the spread of fascism in South America is within the best interests of the United States, that would be now legal and a presidential administration wouldn't have to cover it up to run away from criminal liability?


    That's neat
     

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