Real World Affect of Healthcare Bill on Unemployement

Unfortunately there's not much to discuss because there's not a lot of specifics there. Is it possible that health care reform will cause additional costs for some companies? Sure. Is it possible that it will reduce costs for other companies? Sure. So one piece of hearsay doesn't really tell us much about the effects of the reform overall. And we can't discuss the effects on this particular company because we don't know anything about the $8 million figure, where it comes from or how it was calculated, or what the pieces of the legislation contributed to those costs.

 

This issue reminds me of the death panel issue. This was talked about in the beginning. The liberals were insistent that people would not lose their existing coverage with their employers. While the government was not going to force them to change, the effects of sky rocketing cost of health care will force many companies to drop health care all together and pay the penalty. This of course, paints the corporations as the villains. To those who believe the health care bill was better than nothing don't see the full picture. If the health care bill is not repealed, then this colossal mess will eventually collapse and force the government to take over. The Single Payer system is coming one way or another. Unfortunately, its going to cost the tax payer trillions to just get it implemented through force.

 

Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for SamFisher's reply.

 

Wait... what does that have to do with death panels?

 

Death panels is just another term for rationing. Its a term used to grandstand and not deal with the real issue at hand, just as the HCR supports stated nobody would lose their existing coverage. Its a red herring based on technicalities. Rationing already exists.

 

Recently, I too, heard a CEO of a national company with 30,000 employees talk about the effect of the healthcare bill on his company.

The healthcare bill will save his company annually over $8 million dollars a year in lost production as a result of the greater availability of preventative medical care.

 

Which features?

I mean, we know there are people who are against the reform passed. We know people disagree about the effects that it will have. We know that even on the things people do agree about, some will be negative and others will be positive. So that's why this information is hard to discuss. It could be 100% true and not put a dent in the arguments for reform, or it could totally refute them. Without any specifics we just don't know.

 

Pretty much its going to hurt those large employers that didn't offer adequate healthcare coverage. It will help small business employers like the one I work for that already pay for my coverage because they will now receive a credit. The individuals of the large employers win if their company doesn't layoff or reduce hours and pays for the insurance. The small employer's employees lose out on what would be cheaper coverage they would get if their employer's didn't offer plans.

I don't like it, but we will see what happens in 2014.

 

I'd love to here that CEO explain his position. The one question to ask him would be, "why didn't you already offer your employees insurance if it was going to save you so much money"

 

This supports something that all people should know:

Generally speaking....extra costs that are placed on companies are then passed down to employees (layoffs, firings, forced retirement, reduced hours, etc.) and consumers (higher prices, poorer quality, poorer service, lower value, etc.).

This is a very important concept to understand.

 

Yeah? Then **** national companies, **** business, and **** the mentality that thinks nothing is more important than the profits of corporations. Since Reagan's presidency, the entire span of which he spent in the hip pocket of the corporate world, the suckers have been repeating the mantra of the holiness of business, and the sad state that citizens are in now with the economy in shambles and the bills piling up is a direct result of Reaganites successfully imparting that unhealthy view throughout the country.

Business is NOT holy and continuing to believe it is will just allow corporate America to continue pillaging and abusing the nation.

If this is all some slippery slope to a single payer system, then God bless America.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that HCR will depress wages and employment. You can't go out and buy shiny new benefits and expect to not pay for it. Better healthcare will need to be paid for, which means there won't be money to buy other stuff. But, it's worth the expense.

 

This may be true, but requires some clarification.

This is not an automatic process - if companies are paying out more, thereby reducing their profits, and so choose to pass these costs on to employees, this results from a decision the bosses of that company make that the profits of themselves and their shareholders are far more important than the livelihoods of their employees - the bosses decide to penalize their employees out of concern for the continuation of a certain level of profit for shareholders who don't even work at that company.

Because business has been sanctified for too long in the country, people tend to view this mentality as something good, and these companies have become far far too powerful in the meantime.

I see nothing wrong with forcing businesses to practice a measure of social responsibility and for them to pay for those practices.

 

Probably not to companies losing money.

There are downsides to any model we choose. I think we will see the single payer system in this country eventually.

 

thank you o wise one

 

I don't think that's true. While there is some impact from decision-making, these things happen because of the machinery of the economy, not from the greed of a couple of fatcats at the top making specific decisions about the actions of the company. You have shareholders, managers, employees, suppliers, customers all who have a measure of market power to pull the earnings this way and that. Employees don't get what they get because of the benevolence or malevolence of their employers -- they get it because they demand it and have the bargaining position to require it. And, everything they don't get (the wages and employment) is because their market power is limited.

If you don't like the level of power workers have, don't look to the managers or the shareholders -- they just do what they do. Look to the things that increase workers' power (which for quick adjustments will usually involve the government).

To that point, I don't think the entire cost of HCR will be borne by employees, and I do think it is a net-gain for this constituency. Even with better healthcare, the company still needs a certain amount of labor to run operations and they still have to pay a market rate. Customers (mostly the same people) will pick up some of the costs as well, but they still benefit from market competition. So, managers and shareholders will also pick up some of the cost for benefits going to workers.

In the end, I think workers need only worry about the efficacy of the program and whether it is managed well enough that they're getting their money's worth from the healthcare system. If it is efficient enough, they benefit and had some of the expense subsidized by shareholders. If it is not efficient, worker and shareholder alike are throwing money down the toilet.

 

Without getting into the politics of it:

I work in the insurance industry. To give you an example, my agency's health insurance went up 35% this year for a business with 50 employees.

Our average clients renewal premium since we work with small and medium sized businesses will increase between 35 and 50% with 40%+ being the norm.

Obviously an expense that great is going to have tremendous effects on budgetary issues and remedies like the OP will the the pitfall.

 

Healthcare costs were *already* skyrocketing - nothing in this bill increases that, and it might actually decrease it.

The businesses that were already providing health care don't have additional costs/penalties. In the case of small businesses, they actually get savings if they were already providing health (and aren't penalized if they weren't). The only ones that lose out are the large ones that weren't providing health care in the first place - so, no, this bill won't cause companies to drop their current health care because it doesn't impose penalties or raise costs on those companies. You really have no clue what you're talking about.