Monday, May 19 Medical ruling: Teen's shooting not accidental -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Associated Press GREEN BAY, Wis. -- The 14-year-old son of Green Bay Packers assistant coach Ray Sherman shot himself in the head with his father's gun, a death the medical examiner ruled a suicide. Ray Sherman Jr. was helping his family move from a rented home Sunday afternoon when he found his father's weapon while alone in the garage, police Lt. Jim Arts said. Ray Sherman found his son 10 minutes after the gun went off and called 911, Arts said. The boy's mother, two younger sisters, 5 and 11, and grandmother also were at home but didn't hear the shot. His father had gone looking for the teen to take him to a movie, Arts said. The coach told police he had owned guns for more than 20 years and that the .38-caliber pistol and ammunition were usually kept separately. The gun was in a duffel bag on a shelf in the garage. After an autopsy Monday, Al Klimek, the Brown County medical examiner, said the location of the wound -- right side of the head -- and other evidence led him to conclude the death was a suicide. "There's just things that we found through the investigation that indicates this was more of an intentional act,'' said Klimek, who refused to elaborate. No suicide note was found, Arts said. "There was no indication of anything going on in the young man's life,'' such as being upset about the family's move, the lieutenant said. Arts helped coach the boy on an eighth-grade football team at Lombardi Middle School in Green Bay. The school opened the gym Sunday night as a gathering place for about 100 grieving students and another 75 adults. Crisis counselors were available for students at school Monday. Packers coach and general manager Mike Sherman, no relation his assistant, issued a statement Monday evening holding out the possibility that the shooting was accidental. He said that on the day of the boy's death, he played in a soccer game, practiced drum lessons, worked with his mother in a garage sale and planned to go to a 7 p.m. movie, "The Matrix Reloaded,'' with his father. There was "no note left behind and or anything in his life to suggest that this young man had any plans other than living his life to the fullest,'' Mike Sherman said. "I appeal to everyone to offer prayers as this family begins the process of dealing with their loss.'' Ray Sherman joined the Packers staff in 2000 as the wide receivers coach. He has been in the NFL for 15 seasons as a coach for the Vikings, Steelers, Jets, 49ers and the Falcons and the former Houston Oilers.
Damn, sometimes it's the people you least expect. Still, I think there's a chance it was an accident. I knew a guy who in the same exact situation, shot a hole in his hand. He just assumed the magnum he found wasn't loaded.
I was thinking the same thing Oski. Maybe he found the gun, put it to his head and pulled the trigger, never thinking there would be bullets in it. The article stated his father kept the guns and ammo in seperate places. He still should have checked the chamber however. A tragedy.
Just confirms what I've always believed to be true....the only family kids dying due to gunshots are the ones whose parents own guns. Or, it's kids at a friend's house whose parents own guns. Is it worth it? No, I don't think it is. If it is, then said parents have to be responsible 100% of the time and not leave any margin for any kind of act to occur with said guns. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't own guns. Therefore, these parents should not own guns. Period! I am sorry for their loss. However, they must burden some of the blame and live with this the rest of their lives. Surf
that is awful. however, i have to say that i feel no sympathy to people who commit suicide. they are taking the easy way out and are jackasses, thats not how you solve problems. i feel sorry for the family and friends of the person that commited suicide. they are going to grieve for the rest of their lives and are probably going to have nightmares and many 'what if' thoughts. i am terribly, terribly sorry for ray sherman, his wife, his daughters, and the rest of his family. i couldnt imagine what they are feeling right now. if the kid did in fact kill himself, he has caused many people an eternity of grief. i dont understand how you could take your own life. that is the most selfish thing you could do and it just angers me when people do it. angers me to no end. i dont understand it.
Surf, I see where you are coming from. If adults are going to have a gun, then the 1st thing they need to do is educate their children about it instead of just trying to hide it. I remember when I was a kid and my father bought a gun and a couple of shotguns. The 1st thing he did was educate me (I was around 9) about them. He showed me how they worked, how to handle them (i.e. checking to see if they were loaded before doing ANYTHING else) and even took me out to the shooting range. He didn't try to hide them from my brother and I. However, he did make it clear that if my brother or I touched any of them without his presence, then he would take a strap to us. Oski2005 and BobFinn mentioned earlier about assuming the gun was loaded or whatnot. If a person knows anything about guns, its that you know what you are dealing with before you handle one (i.e. checking to see if its loaded). Surfguy is right on with his take. If a child picks up a gun and accidentally shoots themselves, then the parent(s) are not responsible enough to own any type of weapon. If someone is not going to check to see if a gun is loaded before handling it, then whoever gave them (or allowed them) access to the gun should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Drewdog, I can understand where you are coming from with regards to hating guns. It should not be that way. Don't hate the guns, hate the irresponsible parents. This accident (if it indeed was one as some have advocated) could have been avoided.
On a side note, I went out hunting deer(they were hunting...I don't hunt) one time near Fredericksburg. I had never been before nor had I had any up-close exposure to high powered rifles. This older person decides he is going to educate me about rifles. So, what does he do? He accidentally discharges the rifle right in front of me into the air. I don't know what he did. He was definitely not in a firing position and luckily the barrel aimed straight up in the air upon discharge. Everyone who was there spectating from a distance away was in complete shock that this guy had this happen. They were basically looking at this guy thinking, "What a stupid f-ing idiot dumbass!". I nearly lost my life being educated about rifles. I decided I didn't much care for learning about rifles after that. I couldn't shoot a deer anyway. Teaching about guns is not always enough if you botch the lesson. Surf
Absolutely. Just DON'T OWN A GUN. Some people say guns don't kill people, people kill people. They'd have a much harder time doing it without a gun. And what else, by the way, do guns do besides kill? They should disappear from this earth as should nukes and all other advanced weapons. It is really freaking hard to accidentally off yourself with sticks and stones. I feel for this family. They will know the rest of their lives that their own son died because they had a gun. I hope it was worth it.
That is a good idea. Lets just get rid of guns. Lets just get rid of everything that can possibly kill a person. Lets blame the guns and not the person that is using it. Lets blame the knife and not the person doing the stabbing. Lets blame the garden hoe and not the person that is using it to wack someone else upside the head and fracture their skull. The reason why "Guns don't kill people ....people kill people" is such a popular phrase is because it 100% true. If someone wants to kill another person badly enough, they sure as heck aren't going to let the fact that they don't have a gun stand in their way. It is all about education. Guns are perfectly safe as long as the people (I am mainly talking about the average family) that have access to them are educated and respectful. The irresponsibility of some shouldn't penalize those that are responsible.
If someone's set enough in actually committing suicide, they'll find another way. What are we to do, implement razor and sleeping pill control?
our friend refman owns a gun...a pistol...he's never used it to kill a person or an animal. he takes it to the range and fires it off at targets. it's not an interest i share...i really don't care for guns much. but i'm not about to tell refman that he can't have a gun. i know single girls who own guns because they feel it provides them some measure of protection if someone breaks in. for them, the gun is peace of mind. so there's another thing a gun does besides kill. what do cigarettes do besides kill? what does fatty food do besides kill? what does alcohol do besides kill? you can use that line over and over again to make virtually everything contraband. and we've seen how well we're able to enforce laws related to those things we've already banned, right? we do such a good job keeping drugs out of the hands of kids, certainly we can put the genie back in the bottle with guns...right?
Yes, yes, but if we didn't have guns, we would get killed by aliens! RUN! RUN! He has a board with a nail in it!
Exactly, BJ. How ironic that after arguing with you on homosexuals, we would be on the same side about this. Reading about this just infuriates me to no end. Absolutely stupid and senseless and unnecessary.... BTW - I am not going to look it up right now, but didn't England's policemen not use guns but clubs? I think they may have finally gone to guns, but I know for years they never used them. I would also say that in the time that they did not use guns, the crime in England was probably less than the crime in this country. There is a guy that I have known for over 25 years and at one time, I considered him to be my best friend. We still get along but he is a huge gun nut. I went over to his place on New Year's Eve and he showed me his gun collection. I mean it was scary. I like to think that he is a sane individual, but what would stop him from going postal one day and just blasting everyone he sees in sight? Needless to say, I have not gone back over there and I really don't want to.
