Did anyone hear this? It's just one man's request but I had been led to believe that he didn't exist... http://www.byoaudio.com/play/W6HhX8hs
I think what the problem with the war is that we haven't been willing to take the burden of it. The politician needs to own up to the fact that they supported the war because it was the popular opionion of that time, and needs to support finishing that job (because pulling out is not a good solution, it just leaves a mess) even if it means political suicide. The tax payer needs to own up and realize a war like this takes a ton of money, which means taxes (especially the middle and upper class that are more conservative and voted Repulican) needs to own up and take a tax hike up. The soldiers that are crying about coming home needs to own up and realize that we're a volunteer army, meaning you knew the risk when signing up, you need to finish the job. I feel the biggest problem with the current generation of the U.S. is that there really weren't enough big problems. When it looks like we make a mistake, we expect to be bailed out or look for a quick solution. Iraq = we're lied to and need to get out. Subprime mess = lower interest rates and possible government sponsored defferment on home loans. Dot-com boom and Enron = regulation reforms etc, etc. It's time to realize that we are the ones making the mistakes and then own up to it. You punish kids and set ground rules when they're little so they don't feel like they can do whatever they want. The little punishments will keep them from making the bigger mistakes. The American people really haven't owned up the responsibillity of their actions and there could be one day which they create a mess to big to handle.
Cuz unlike conservative, liberals don't feel the need to attack some one just for having a different view
I disagree that's its a mistake to pull out. There are mistaken ways to pull but it doesn't have to be a mistake. Also sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils. It sucks that we were put in that situation, but we have been.
As I've noted in a previous thread, it will take us somewhere between 10-15 months to get out once the call is made if we're to take all our equipment with us. Surely we can do so in a somewhat orderly fashion. I don't know if the Iraqi government will hold, but I also don't think another year holding their hands will be worth the cost. Even if we have to go back at some point, giving our troops a break asap, and forcing the Iraqi's hand is the way to go imo.
If Iraq deteriotes and the instabillity spread towards rest of the region, more people in the middle east will look to the US as the root of all upcoming problems (not that going didn't already fueled the fumes, but that it will get a heck of a lot worse). We created this mess (instabillity) and we need to fix it. Sacrifises need to be made; higher taxes to properly the war, taking steps to understand what the Iraqi people want instead of what we think they want, and then try and get it for them. Leave on as good of terms as possible, stabilize that SOB and get then get hte heck out. The US might also need to have a little more of a heavy hand (it pains me to say this) but at the same time realize that just as in Vietnam, every mistake you make will turn some one on your side to the otherside.
Some things, specifically exceptionally complex dynamic systems, you don't fix by grabbing them firmly with both hands and trying to force them into place. The more we grab a hold of the system (the country) to try and fix it the more broken it becomes and the longer we delay them from finding their own internal stability. I have a rose garden. I want it to be a really nice looking garden. Every day I am confronted with a desire to go out into my garden and fertilize and trim and arrange everything just right. It is a genuine and natural desire to make my garden 'work' as well as it can. But if I did that, the plants would become over-fertilized, and the constant trimming would stress the plants beyond their limits. Soon I'd have a garden full of dead roses and I would be very unhappy. The lesson I've learned is that sometimes trying harder and working harder is not the correct response. Sometimes you have to just back off and let things grow. This is the fundamental flaw in your reasoning. You think that more effort and more force will necessarily be beneficial. From everything I’ve seen that is not true. Iraq needs room to grow.
solid post! but i have to say not everything is black and white, there is plenty of gray (and blame to go around)...
But perhaps getting out is the best way to fix it. The more we are there, the less chance there is of a real solution(In my opinion that isn't mine but some others that I agree with.). I'm saying we keep a force in the region that can be called in should they be needed. We keep them very mobile, and have as much intel gathering as we possibly can muster. I think staying in Iraq won't stabilize it but continue to destabilize it. I also recognize that it's possible to have a period of increased chaos when we leave, but believe that it is temporary where as staying there will always cause insurgency, and bring about chaos.
