[QUICK HELP] Big Three's Stats Compared to Best in History

this article compares them to the 95 braves among some other teams:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2005/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2180225

here's one specifically on oswalt:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2005/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2184064

and one on pettite:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2005/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2182109

stark is the man!

 

where's the argument taking place?? which board?

 

I remember a comparison where basically it showed that they were the best ever, and anyone that was close was from the dead ball era. I don't remember who did the article, though for some reason I'm thinking it's the Chronicle.

 

www.baseball-reference.com has ERA+, which adjusted for League and Ball Park - the higher the better.

Here's how 95 Braves big 3 go

Maddux 1.63 ERA, 259 ERA+
Glavine 3.08 ERA, 137 ERA+
Smoltz 3.18 ERA, 133 ERA+


Here are 2005 Astros
Clemens 1.89 ERA, 221 ERA+
Pettitte 2.39 ERA, 174 ERA+
Oswalt 2.94 ERA. 141 ERA+

So, Clemens is not that far behind Maddux, while Pettitte and Oswalt were better than Glavine and Smoltz.

When you factor in that the Astros big 3 pitched more IP, they saved considerably more runs compared to league average than the 95 Braves big 3. Without crunching the numbers, I don't think it's entirely due to the shortened 95 season.

 

No link as it was out of the archives.
*********************************

Big 3 's great year at risk of being wasted

By JOHN P. LOPEZ
Staff



IT seems everyone has described the Astros as having World Series-caliber pitching.

The Big Three, we call them. The Rocket. Roy O. The Hoss.

Roger Clemens. Roy Oswalt. Andy Pettitte.

It seems everyone has speculated that if a staff with so much talent and such tiny ERAs - backed by a world-class closer in Brad Lidge - cannot get this team to the Series, then it might end up as the biggest waste of great pitching since ... when?

How about since baseball went to division play in 1969?

The numbers say that over the past 36 years, the Astros' ERA at the top of the rotation compares favorably with the greatest of the great.

The numbers say that if the Astros come up short in this wild-card race they lead by a half-game over the Marlins, a more powerful staff never will have come away with less to show for it.

Wild card in the balance

Today marks the opener of a four-game set with the Marlins that could be the biggest series of the season for the Astros. Unfortunately for the Stros, only two of the Big Three - Clemens and Pettitte - will take the mound. Brandon Backe and Wandy Rodriguez open the series for the Astros, who lost to the Brewers with Oswalt on the mound Sunday in Milwaukee.

The Astros have held on to the wild-card edge despite their well-known offensive struggles. But the Marlins will bring Dontrelle Willis (20-8), Josh Beckett (13-8) and A.J. Burnett (12-10) in the first three games. All are capable of changing the fortunes of the Astros, who lost two of three at Milwaukee after sweeping the Phillies.

With the Astros struggling again Sunday to come up with a clutch hit - the ebb of a slump once again following the flow of three nice games in Philly - this clearly is going to be a wild last three weeks of the season.

But if the Astros' worst nightmare comes true and they cannot hold on, how big a waste will it be?

The comparison game

In 1985, the National League champion Cardinals had three of the best pitchers in baseball - John Tudor (21-8, 1.93 ERA), Danny Cox (18-9, 2.88) and Joaquin Andujar (21-12, 3 .40).

Clemens' 1.78 ERA is lower than Tudor's, Pettitte's 2.48 is lower than Cox's, and Oswalt's 2.93 is better than Andujar's.

Go ahead. Pick most any World Series team since division play began in 1969. The chances are great the Astros' Big Three will finish the season with lower ERAs than any of those Big Three. And many of those teams didn't have a closer of Lidge's caliber, either.

The 1969 Miracle Mets? Tom Seaver (25-7, 2.21), Jerry Koosman (17-9, 2.28) and Gary Gentry (13-12, 3 .43) led the way to the title. But that team had clutch hitting.

After trailing the Cubs by 9 1/2 games on Aug. 14, the '69 Mets climbed to the pennant and then the Series title. Still, their Big Three hardly outperformed the current Astros' Big Three, at least in terms of ERA.

What about the great 1995 Braves? The team that finally won a Series championship remains Atlanta's only title winner and was led by a Huge Three - Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz.

Nope. Clemens, Pettitte and Oswalt have them beat as well. Maddux had his best season, going 19-2, and with his 1.63 ERA would rate a slight edge over Clemens. But Pettitte trumps Glavine (16-7, 3 .08), and Oswalt tops Smoltz (12-7, 3 .18).

Other renowned threesomes of World Series lore:

The 1973 A's, with Ken Holtzman (21-13, 2.97), Vida Blue (20-9, 3 .28), and Catfish Hunter (21-5, 3 .34).

The 1970 Orioles, with Jim Palmer (20-10, 2.71), Dave McNally (24-9, 3 .22) and Mike Cuellar (24-8, 3 .48).

The 1978 Yankees, with Ron Guidry (25-3 , 1.74), Ed Figueroa (20-9, 2.99) and Hunter (12-6, 3 .58).

The 1981 Dodgers, with Burt Hooton (11-6, 2.28), Jerry Reuss (10-4, 2.30) and Fernando Valenzuela (13-7, 2.48).

In terms of ERAs and performance, it could be argued the heart of this Astros staff is better than all of those.

But those threesomes went down in baseball history as some of the best. This one?

The next three weeks and particularly the next four days should decide if the legacy will be the same. Or perhaps the biggest waste of ERA in 36 years.

 

I like to compare how many runs a group of 3 park-adjusted, league average pitchers would allow in the same number of innings. The Astros 3 allowed 182 earned runs in 675.33 IP. Our group of 3 average 2005 Joes would have allowed 311, making the Astros 129 runs better. The 95 braves allowed 174 earned runs in 601 IP compared with 3 average 1995 Joes who would have allowed 283, making the Braves 109 runs better.

The '81 Dodgers look pretty impressive. However, they did it in a strike-shortened season during a lower scoring run environment at a strong pitcher's park.

 

Baseball Prospectus had an article a few weeks ago showing Clemens, Pettitte, and Oswalt were on pace to have the best season of any starting three in baseball history. I can't find the link though.