The bible is suppose to be the word of God, right. And God loves all people, right. Can someone then explain to me why I found these four quotes from the bible. I personally don't read the bible, but I would like some clarification on why God would put something like this in the bible. Here is just four of the quotes I am confused on. "Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed. (From the RSV Bible, 1 Timothy 6:1)" "I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master." (Genesis 3:16) If they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. It is a disgrace when a woman speaks in the assembly." (1 Corinthians 14:34-35). "Man was not made from woman but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, a woman ought to have a sign of submission on her head." (1 Corinthians 11:8-10).
There are plent of quotes from the bible along those lines. This is why not investigating and researching the historical aspects involve leads to an incomplete understanding of the bible. I don't pretend to have all the answers. I can only point to Paul using various women in helping to establish the church. There were definitely women present at the last supper of Christ, and they definitely played a role in that last supper.
sorry to derail but, I feel the same way about the Quran, Many of the stuff written about the womens not having rights etc is either taken way too seriously, and or out of context of what it really was meant to be for. Like for example the women covering up and wearing " a burqa" isnt to treat them as animals, instead it is to protect them from the eyes of possible rapist and the lust of other men. Also the lines in which it says to "kill jews/christians" etc is also taken too extremely, most of it was revealed during war times and or during times in which we needed some sort of reason to fight back... ---------- going back to the bible, well i would say it was right that way during those times. maybe it wasnt hostile for women during the times of Jesus to speak out of line etc, and they were just told as a tip/pointer to just ask their husbands...
This is why I consider myself a cultural Christian. I find the Bible full of contradictions. I can't take it fundamentally.
Because the Bible was NOT written by God, but by man. Just like the Torah, or the Q'ran, or any other religious book. SHEESH !! DD
Thats your theory, good for you. But others like to have a more spiritual reasoning for life, Dont be a troll....
Sure, far be it from me to be a pragmatic person. Good for you and your spirituality, glad to see that name calling is part of your religious beliefs too. I guess you simply can't tolerate people who "think" for themselves rather than being led by a spritual leader....or MAN of god. Adeel, keep your head in the sand, it suits you. DD
I wasnt calling out your beliefs, I actually respect the fact that you have the balls to telll anyone to their face what you believe is true... But the thread was posted as a way to discuss why there are some sentences that have really degraded women in the bible, not as an outlet for you to tell other that thier belief is ****, and that just another man wrote their HOLY books. I mean its understandable when you say stuff like this but this wasnt the right thread... for example you dont go to a persons funeral and start listing why the man was a moron in life. Its called respect. Also being led by a spiritual leader, and living by guidlines are two different things, start another thread and ill gladly debate this with you I apologize if my words have harmed you, for they were not meant to hurt your feelings.
This thread was started because of quotes in the bible. I merely pointed out that man wrote the bible thus the argument about Christianity and its views towards women is moot. DD
Well, this is more of an aetheist/agnostic view. Being an aetheist myself, I've always held this opinion and found it very logical. But for Christians who do believe in the bible, whom this thread is asking, they would have a different explanation. And I for one do wish to see their explanation. Then judge for myself whether there is merit or not.
I'm not a Christian but if I can offer a compromise view. The Bible was written as a guide to leading a life in accordance with certain beliefs. At the same time humans are endowed with reason and free will whle at the same time knowledge and understanding is increasing. What was written in the Bible is contradictory because different parts of it suited the times they were written for but humans as rational beings with free will are expected to be work their way through the contradictions to better understand what is important.
The Bible was divinely inspired, in parts, but the books of the New Testament after the Gospels, including Corinthians, are letters from Paul (and James) to Churches.
BigMoe -- I'm not trying to dodge a question with a question...but did you look first to the context these sentences were pulled from? Where did you come across these particular lines?
1. The first one is about slavery. Keep in mind these are the words of the Apostle Paul, and not of Jesus. But Jesus and the early Christians were thrust in a world order with certain structural givens. Women were certainly not regarded with a ton of respect in those days...and slavery still existed as well. Jesus equated all these folks...slave and freeman; man and woman; Jew and Gentile...he treated each with the same measure of respect and love. He never said, "hey slavery is great! keep up the good work!" But Paul did address slaves who were believers by saying that they should even be willing to show Christ's love to their very own masters. Jesus said, "What good is it to only love those who love you...no, go further than that...love even you enemies." This scripture verse is no more than an extension of that thought. 2. The pangs of childbirth, according to the Genesis story, were as a result of man's disobedience to God. You will find that throughout the Bible that God provides the ultimate dignity to human life by affording free choice. But He also makes it very clear that living life outside of His will is likely to lead to disaster. Sorta like running a new piece of heavy equipment without following the owners' manual. 3. The third is about women and their role in the church early on. You should know a couple of things first: there were a number of women who Paul writes directly to...who were leaders of respective early churches. Paul wrote somewhat different messages in each letter to address difference social contexts in each city where a church was situated and to address particular specific problems each church had. Also...you should know that Jesus specifically addressed women as equals. He would spend time talking not just to women...but to women who were deemed to be great sinners...unclean. And he always showed them respect, but told them to "go and sin no more." As FranchiseBlade pointed out...what we're seeing here is how misunderstandings of the Bible arise by choosing not to read anything but a sentence out of time completely out of context. 4. Paul's letters also talk about submission in the role of wife and husband....but as much as he asks women to submit to their husbands (and not in the sense it's so often misunderstood to be), he also said time and time again that men should submit to their wives, as well.... If you're looking for the New Testament to be a great collection of rules, you won't find it. It's not built that way. It gives guidance, no doubt. It talks about ways to understand and follow Christ. But it doesn't have the look of the Old Testament or the Koran. The New Testament is really about God reaching down through Christ to bridge the gap between man and God. That we are sinful and fall short of God...every single one of us...and that Christ completes us and bridges that gap.
Just to add a little to Max's excellent responses: 1) Slaves were considered and treated like family back then. Once slaves fulfilled their obligation, they were given a choice to either leave the master's house or become a part of his household (signified by an earring.) If they chose to stay, the slave and his family would enjoy the providence and protection of the master, but would not partake in any inheritance. 3) Women in Corinth were not well educated (or allowed an education). The women in that church were particularly malicious gossipers. It's understandable that Paul would have these concerns. Other churches had women deacons (such as Dorcas, aka Tabitha) that Paul did not address in his letters. 4) Husbands are called to love their wives, which denotes a greater responsibility than simple submission. The verse is basically a call to wives to allow their husbands to be responsible for them (love them). It is used as an example of Jesus relationship with His church.
