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QUESTION: How Coachable do you think Harden is?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rocket River, May 14, 2019.

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How Coachable do you think Harden is?

  1. 1. Highly Coachable - Does what is Asked of him

    12 vote(s)
    14.1%
  2. 2. Good Coachability - But he has a few tendencies he cannot break

    36 vote(s)
    42.4%
  3. 3. Average - He about 50/50 Guy - Goes off book often

    25 vote(s)
    29.4%
  4. 4. Poor - He goes off book often and He and the Coach are not on the same page

    6 vote(s)
    7.1%
  5. 5. Bad - He does what he wants d*mn what the Coach says - aka WESTBROOK

    6 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    He better coddle Harden or he will get fired just like McHale did. McHale bucked JH and quickly got the boot during that horrific start that particular season.
     
    deb4rockets likes this.
  2. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    Bwhahaha exactly, dude really needs to go back and watch a true MDA coached offense. Like when he coached the Suns.
     
  3. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Cause they were VASTLY more successful
    or
    Did he lean into what NAsh already was

    I mean . . . .. IF this is all on harden and MDA is irrelevent. . . what happened in LA and NY?

    Rocket River
     
    snowconeman22 likes this.
  4. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    McHale came the closest during that Game 6 comeback.

    We all saw the outcome.

    People who really believe MDA wouldn't attempt to implement more movement and a quicker offense are just coddling Harden the same way coaches do.

    It's okay to criticize James while still being a fan. Not sure why so many things have to be one side or the other. Gray area exists.
     
  5. MystikArkitect

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    Harden needs a GM and a Coach to keep him in check, make him play D and work within an offense. If he doesn’t like it then trade him.

    We’ve seen as far as we can get with Harden calling the shots. WCF. That’s it.
     
    chadyang likes this.
  6. luckyman76

    luckyman76 Member

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    It's 2 and for good reason. I will not use personal correlations but coachability assumes management is always right and those plans always work out and that is never the case. You have to play as a team but invariably best laid plans are crap and someone is always a fireman or janitor that shoulders 100% of the blame for things not going right or looking pretty while the real culprit is ignored. Put out 999 fires but one that gets away is always remembered. SA Game 6. Harden has some inherent flaws we have all seen that are a function of the way he has to play for 82 games. When your GM fails, injuries decimate your team, the coach doesn't like to play reserves, and generally the team outside of Tuck stands around and watches you play until the playoffs you cannot expect the guy to become someone new when everyone else decides it's time to give a ****. Most of Harden's weaknesses are a function of exhaustion. We play a slower pace because of what he is asked to do. No player that is uncoachable puts in the level of preparation and development that Harden does. That's just not possible. LBJ is the best argument against that theory and it still fails for a number of reasons not important here. Every other team that reaches this position gets to have 3 or 4 all-stars but the Rockets get 1.5 and maybe 2. They ONLY come close because of Harden's greatness but when he doesn't average 60 and they don't win it is HIS failure. The catastrophic Ryan Anderson failure has cost this team TWO seasons now and possible a third if we get nothing with Shumpert's contract slot. No team can give away $20M of their roster that does absolutely nothing and be expected to win. That is an organizational failure. Teams are getting excuses for losing with Embiid, Simmons, Butler, and Harris. Same with Horford, Hayward, Irving, Tatum and so on. Same with Jokic, Millsap, Murray, Harris, and so on. The Raptors will get the same excuse for losing with Leonard, Lowry, Gasol, Siakim, and so on. I don't want excuses for Harden or the Rockets. I want a recognition that something has to be done.
     
    Houstunna likes this.
  7. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    The Rockets offense is a complicated issue. Harden's coachability is just one way to look at it. The main questions are: (1) Why do we play such an offense (i.e. slow, ISO heavy, little movement)? (2) Is it an effective way to win?

    Neither of the questions has an simple answer.

    (1) Why do we play such an offense?
    a. Does Harden insist on it even when MDA has other ideas.
    b. Is it because MDA lacks imagination in creating a multi-dimensional offense?
    c. Is it because MDA believes that this is the best offense that fits Harden's style?
    d. Is it because Harden can't be effective in any other style?
    Will we ever know the answer?

    (2) Is it an efffective way to win?
    I know a lot of people, including me, are questioning the strategy after we lost again to GSW. But was it really one of the MAIN reasons for our downfall? (I don't want to be simplistic and blame just one thing. It's never just one thing. But we can discuss some of the MAIN things.) Did its predictability make it easier for the Warriors to devise their defense to stop us? It is a fact that we have been one of the top offensive teams in the regular season. Is it true, as some argue, that it is not suitable for playoffs and therefore (as Kobe and TMac predicted) you cannot win a championship with it?

    All these are legit questions. They are not rhetorical questions. So don't second guess me that I am trying to sell my opinion. If you have a good way to answer them with good argument and/or evidence, please do so. I want to know.
     
  8. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Why do people think harden was hurt by that? He played well in the next round vs Golden State

    But it's hard to get him to play with pace, ballmove off, or put a lot of effort on D
     
  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member
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    Harden is an incredibly smart workhorse.

    He don't let just anyone sit on him, but he might sometimes if it gets the job done (mcfail)
     
  10. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    He gave effort vs GS, but the following season he seemed disinterested early on.
     
  11. onreego

    onreego Member

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    Harden is coachable to an extent. He used to shoot midrange shots and now he doesn't. That's part of a coaching scheme. He's probably not going to run around screens like Klay and Curry but I'm sure he's open to more ball movement. The switching defense helps with his flaws, yes but it's a coaching decision he's bought into and for the most part, it has worked. There are things he does that drive me crazy but I'm happy to have him on the Rockets.

    The issue may be that some of our guys outside of Harden and Paul just aren't the best decision makers on offense. We may have sets where the ball moves around quite a bit but when Gordon and Capela have their initial options taken away they are terrible under pressure. To an extent so is PJ. During the series, we saw guys not have awareness of the clock and scramble to get the ball out of their hands. PJ not taking advantage of that 3 on 1 break to pull back to the three-point line was awful. Maybe Harden prefers to iso but most of the time, unfortunately, the offensive decisions are most efficient in his or Paul's hands.

    This being said. Something needs to change. Whether that's getting the right players so that D'Antoni can add more diversity to the system or a new coach I don't know.
     
  12. dmoneybangbang

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    I don’t know...

    But it Harden’s style of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole doesn’t work as well as in the playoffs.
     
  13. SemisolidSnake

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    I think he's very coachable, but he lacks a coach to really take him further. I mean, MDA openly says he just lets James go out there and play. That's nothing. Maybe MDA has cultivated Harden's confidence to develop things like the stepback three, which Harden has done himself. I don't know. But I think if you paired Harden with a coach that knew how to handle the nuances and adjustments of these difficult playoff games, he'd absorb it like a sponge and get even better. As it is now, he doesn't have that.

    I think many of us, including me, expected Chris Paul to be a pseudo-player-coach. You bring in the pointiest of point guards and how can you not benefit from his accrued wisdom and knowledge as a whole team, right? I expected Paul to bring the varied experience (and to a lesser extent leadership) that would allow the Rockets to get through these roadblocks they run into in individual games. I don't see that. I don't think Harden's surrounded by anyone he can really learn from, but he's certainly a player that loves to learn. And is good at it.
     
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  14. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    He is not running the same darn offense here is the point. Back then it had way better flow to it. His teams had much better player and ball movement. You didn't have all this stand around and watch bullcrap. Standing around hoping to get the ball.
     
  15. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    I’d say average, I am sure he will tell the coach yes yes and then do what he wants anyway. I don’t think MDA holds him accountable, doesn’t dare to suggest Harden to move or run more and is coddling him. MDA would run a faster offense without Harden, guaranteed.
     
  16. Remlap

    Remlap Member

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    Morey lives by analytics = 3's are better than 2's
    MDA lives by the same rules
    James has become MVP (arguably 3X) by utilizing these same principles

    So, this puts D'Antoni smack in the middle of this equation
    He's taken Morey's team to pretty much the top of the mountain using Morey analytics
    and his system has turned James into a record setting superstar
    (not to mention D'Antoni's own record and accomplishments over the past 3 years)

    So, we really think they are going to just kick the coach to the curb?

    Is there a coach that adopts Morey's philosophy any better than MDA?
    Is there a coach that gets more out of James' style than MDA?
    Is there a coach who has won more games the past 3 years?

    So far, I've heard Kelvin Sampson and Tom Thibodeau being mentioned. LOL

    How well do we think our superstar would take to having the man who virtually made him a star
    sent packing to bring in a Tom Thibodeau to yell and scream at him all game long?
    And besides, what has Thibs accomplished that is so enticing?
    And Kelvin Sampson has ZERO NBA head coaching experience

    Let's face it. It's pretty much James' team.
    When he says 'he knows what we need to do' then I'm sure he has Morey's ear and Daryl is taking notes.
     
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  17. amaru

    amaru Member

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    Good point here. Before the Rockets went wholesale with this strategy, Harden used to shoot midrange and post up a lot more frequently.
     
  18. theoldblood

    theoldblood Member

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    When its a coach vs an all-star-MVP player, the player is always going to win.
     
  19. dream2franchise

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    I'd argue his 'I know exactly what to do' was in reference to the offense.

    Maybe he's tired of this playing style and wants to see more of what MDA had in Phx? He's a completely different player to what he was when he arrived, you can't tell me Morey didn't have an influence here and that MDA has seen it through.

    I've also said before though that I feel his (Harden's) concentration on ISO ball could also be due to the constant roster turnover he's experienced. Chemistry and continuity are hard to come by, but he can always work on his own stuff.

    I think it starts at the top. Morey's vision, MDA is creating what he can with it and it's left to Harden to execute.

    It's a 2 for me.
     
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  20. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    I think Harden is coachable. He seems like someone that shies away from any conflict whether it's team mates, coaches or GM's.

    I still remember he told Dwight that he's okay to post him up if Dwight just demanded the ball, when he should have told Dwight to **** off and just set picks for him.

    He's naturally not a confrontational person
     

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