Question about Religion(s)

regardless of your desires, this thread will probably end up at the dreaded D&D. questions of this nature are bound to instigate debate.

on top of that, i can answer neither of those questions.

 

Stop it. it's freakin' friday night for cryin outloud.

All I will say is religion=culture

Research the importance of myth.

 

Muslims believe that Jesus was one of approximately 24,000 Prophets, 25 of which are mentioned in the Qu'ran. They also believe that he did perform miracles, but that the power was given to him by God to prove his existance. It was essentially God's power, they believe, that enabled him to peform the miracles.

 

1. This is what the Muslims believe, when a prophet starts preaching a new religion, most likely he gets a new revelation from God. This usually happens when the followers of the previous religion get to a point where they are away from the true form of worship


2.Yes Muslims believe in Jesus being a prophet, but there are more than 3 prophets we believe in. Adam, Moses, Abraham, Ismael, Mohammed (pbut) are just a few. And as far as I remember they all performed miracles, so it doesnt make them "God" like, it just gives them the stauts of being above the everyday man... also we believe that these miracles were given to the prophets to show the nonbelievers that they are teh real deal, and to listen to their preaching.

Amazing thing is that Mohammed (pbuh) had some of the less obvious Miracles.

 

its sad what SWTsig said, because he is right. its safe to assume i guess that religion does some good. but it sure brings out the hate in a lot of people.

if its not strapping a kid with a bomb to go blow up innocent people. its some old preacher on tv unable to get a real job asking for old people's hard earned money.

thats why for me i dont really have a religion and i try to just be a good person to all things around me.

i would rather give my money to a good cause then give it to a church. (and yes i know they give some money to charities and other good causes, but it sure the hell isnt all of it.)

i also think its funny that some people grow up as christians and also other faiths and never question it, or do any real research into other religions.

i have read many books about theology and other religions and i have even less certainty about what is really out there.

do you think the "passion of christ" was to make crooked old preachers and mel gibson rich...?

 

This is all nice and dandy, and I mean this in the most sincere way..

You plan fails if one of these religions is the truth, there is a God, and you chose to live your own life rather than do what your creator asked. Then you're REALLY screwed.

However, if that's not the case, then you lived a happier life than a religious man would, and didn't suffer the consequences of anything bad you did. You are mroe willing to take that risk than other people.

 

To answer your questions here...

Muslims believe Jesus is one of thousands (I think 25000) of prophets. However, he is one of 5 to be sent down with a book from God. The other 5 are Abraham, Moses, Muhamad, and David.

They believe the first four were sent in a specific order to prepare humans for the final book, the Qura'an, which would be most difficult to follow. We believe the reason for this is that the world was so corrupt back then, it would be seemingly impossible to make the transition from that to the Qura'an immediately.

We do believe in all the miracles, they are actually all mentioned in the Qura'an. We even believe in the Holy Spirit, but don't believe that the Holy Spirit is God.

All prophets performed miracles, so why would Jesus' miracles mean he's God but the others not?

Jesus, I believe, is considered Jewish by Jews, Christian by Christians, and Muslim by Muslims.

Muslims believe that Jesus preached God's message, of which every word we believe in. However, Muslims are skeptical about the accuracy of the Bible. Basically, whatever came out of Jesus' mouth is truth, no doubting it. However, the Bible is up for debate in the Muslim and Jewish community. I think both Muslim and Jews believe the Bible is inconsistent or maybe inacurate.

 

So, would it be safe to extend from this that Muslim extremists see Americans as the new corruption, a Judeo-Christian state filled with inferior worshipers led astray?

I think I can understand the perspective of the Christian extremist. They'll go to vast lengths to try to convert you, and they'll condemn you for being un-Christian for anything they can, but don't usually kill you unless you're an abortion doctor or the like.

What enables Muslim extremists to strap bombs to themselves and blow up infidels? If we all worship the same God, why aren't Mohamed's Witnesses constantly knocking on my door, trying to convert me to the "real" religion? Is there such thing as a Muslim Missionary, and if so do they carry Qura'ans and medical supplies or AK-47s and explosives?

 

Perhaps my post has been misinterpreted. The reason I didn't post my message to D&D is that I want thinking, not ideology.

I don't think anyone around here will defend extremists, whether they're Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or Aethist extremists. I'm just trying to figure out the difference between these extreme types. What exists in Muslim doctrine or culture that allows for this difference?

I'm intimately familiar and have first-hand experience with the type of culture (redneck) and doctrine (fundamentalism) that breeds stereotypical southern Christian extremism. Remember, the Oklahoma City bombings were done to commemorate the "slaughter" of the Waco Branch Dividians, and could be seen as Christian extremist terrorism. How is that different than Sept. 11th besides scale and religious affiliation?

 

The Jewish leaders of that era didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah that He said He was. As I understand it, there were a goodly number of folks claiming to be the Messiah. The Jews believed none of them (including Jesus) and, to this day, the Jews are still waiting on the Messiah.

The Christian sect recognized Jesus as the Messiah and thus the birth of a new spirituality and a new church.

Calling MadMax (and others) to flesh out more detail....

 

I think this one can be safely breached without offending anyone... (I hope)

It's important to first make a distinction: there is Jewish by faith and Jewish by race. I've actually met some Jewish people who were converted to Christianity or Buddhism. Is a person still Jewish if he doesn't follow the faith of his parents, or is he just another caucation guy?

If you think he's not Jewish anymore because he doesn't follow the Jewish faith, then it's easy to see that the followers of Jesus were no longer Jewish because the teachings of Jesus were distinctly different from the law of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, etc.) and the Prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, etc.) in what many now call the Old Testament. The quintessential differences can be seen in Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount" in Matthew, chapter 5, beginning in verse 17. He says "Think not that I am come to destroy the law,or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Then he goes on to give "new" commandments that "supersede" the old Jewish law, if you will. For instance, Jewish law (by way of Moses) says "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", (Exodus 21:24) but Jesus taught that that wasn't good enough anymore, and he instead taught to "whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also" (turn the other cheek, Matthew 5:38-39) This is just a small example, but Christians believe that Jesus essentially did away with the old Jewish law, and gave a more difficult law for them to follow. The life of Jesus and the teachings of his apostles is the New Testament. Obviously, the Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah they had been looking for, and therefore they did not accept his teachings. So from a religious standpoint, Jews and Christians are now fundamentally different, even though they believe in the same God, and generally agree on everything in the Old Testament. (the ONLY testament if you're Jewish)

If we're talking about Jewish from an ethnic standpoint, well then, of course Jesus was Jewish. He also made a point of teaching Jews almost exclusively, with a few notable exceptions. (The Woman at the Well is a well known story where Jesus taught a Samarian woman and the people of her city, John 4) After Jesus was killed, his apostles also taught only the Jews, because it was generally taught that the gospel (which means "good news") of Christ was only for the Jews, since they were the chosen people of God. That changed in the book of Acts, chapters 10-11, when Peter had a revelation that the time had come to begin teaching non-Jews. (the Gentiles) Gentiles were considered unclean by the Jews because they didn't follow the law of Moses, were not circumsized, etc. But the Gentiles Peter taught felt the Holy Spirit, and he baptized them. In Acts 11:18, it says "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." From that time on, people who weren't Jewish by birth were allowed to become Christian, to the point that today, there are probably very few Christians who can trace their ancestors back to anyone who was once Jewish. (partially because so many of the early Jewish Christians were killed) Christianity in general has become more of a proselytical faith, meaning that it is spread by conversion, rather than by birth. Judaism is still largely tied to birth and family, which is why you don't often hear of someone "becoming" Jewish.



Phew... hope that helps.

 

There are plenty of Muslim missionaries in the country, but again they don't feel comfortable going around doing the jehova's witness stuff. Many of them go to prisons and other rehab centers to preach to the people and how different it could have been had they been Muslims. Also most of the Muslim missionaries I see aree just trying to get the corrupt Muslims back into the mainstream group.

 

C'mon, you ask a religious question and don't want debate? That's like posting, "I love Karl Malone! The Rockets suck!" in the GARM and not expecting an immediate thrashing. Religion on the BBS is like blood in the water for sharks....

which is why I'm moving it to the D&D.

 

Christians believe that Jesus is the fullfillment of everything that Judaism (and the Old Testament) professes. Jesus did not come to condemn Judaism but to fullfill it. Jesus and his apostles (and Paul the first great evanagelist) were all Jewish by race and faith and they believed that Jesus was the fullfillment of a great promise of that faith (the coming of the Messiah). Jesus taught in the synagouge -- the first people he came to were the Jewish (God's chosen) people.

I beleive if you would have asked Jesus, Peter or Paul they would have liked to teach/preach in the Jewish synagogue.

 

What exists in Muslim doctrine or culture that allows for this difference?

It starts with across-the-board poverty. When people are impoverished, they are more easily controlled. If the extremists use their resources to provide food, education, etc, the recipient is going to think (1) that the provider is a good person and (2) indebted to the provider.

When the provider is an extremist, they can warp a fundamental religious message into whatever they want. It's going to be hard to convince a Christian that the world is against them as a group because so many are doing well. It's far easier in an impoverished Muslim community, especially in the Middle East / Africa, where the entire West has throughout history simply used those countries for our own benefit.

 

I disagree. many of the terrorists were educated and had a good lifestyle. Many of them are sons of Millionaires that just left their worldly possesions and followed blindly in the wrong way... OBL wastn poor, neither are many of the terrorists.

Ofcourse that may also be a reason for terrorism many times, but I dont think Poverty is the reason number 1.

Bangladesh is one of the worlds poorest countries, and majorly muslim, yet you are rarely to find terrorist attacks coming from the people in that country. THey could just leave everything behind and join AlQaeda, but they dont.. why, well because they have the sense to know that terrorism isnt the right way to go.

 

well done old chap! great read and very informative!