1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Punked: Stimulus Bill Guaranteed AIG bonus payments

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Mar 18, 2009.

Tags:
  1. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
    it would have helped if someone had read the damn thing.

    [rquoter]From page H1412 of the Final Stimulus Bill, “SEC. 111. EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION AND CORPORATE GOVERNANCE:

    “(iii) The prohibition required under clause (i) shall not be construed to prohibit any bonus payment required to be paid pursuant to a writte employment contract executed on or before February 11, 2009, as such valid employment contracts are determined by the Secretary or the designee of the Secretary.”​
    [/rquoter]

    the above, apparently inserted at Chris Dodd's insistence, means the bonuses Obama is railing against were made explicitly legal by his own gargantuan "stimulus" bill.

    Can you say "it's the competence stupid?"

    Yes you Can!
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,132
    It just says it won't prohibit them. It says nothing about guaranteeing them.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,810
    Likes Received:
    41,282
    Sorry Perry Mason, but this clause isn't applicable for a number of reasons.

    STOP.

    GETTING.

    ALL.

    YOUR.

    INFORMATION.

    FROM.

    RIGHT WING BLOGS.
     
  4. Bogey

    Bogey Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    2,244
    Likes Received:
    114
    I didn't think the bonuses were from the Stimulus bill, I thought it came out of that bailout money from before?
     
  5. Northside Storm

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    11,262
    Likes Received:
    450
    This seems to be given as a compromise hand and foot to the r****ds who crashed the economy in the first place...and look at what has happened. sigh. Words cannot describe how much Wall Street fails at the moment and how much antipathy is directed towards it.

    Let's just pull a Spartacus. No mercy. Get some punishment for God's sakes, don't the Republicans believe in "personal discipline?" Jail time. 100% taxation. Whips. Jesus, why are we rewarding the incompetence of these idiots?
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    Exactly - and everyone was in agreement with that clause. There was a lot of concern that the government shouldn't try to back to recoup legally paid bonuses (and whether it was even legal or ethical) and this was to ensure that. Even now, the Obama admin has asked to look at all LEGAL ways to recover the money - because the gov't didn't and doesn't have the authority to demand it back for payments it's already made.

     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,810
    Likes Received:
    41,282
    And...surprise, here's where basso got this (note the similar typo in the word "writte"

    The Free Republic forums:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2208424/posts


    basso, next time you are hanging with the freepers - please inform them that this is appears to be dealing with section 111 of TARP - TARP's executive compensation provisions only apply to the 5 most senior executives at the company - Hence it is inapplicable to AIGFP people.
     
  8. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
    And Harry, foresight is even better...

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/aig.bonuses.congress/

    [rquoter]Bonuses allowed by stimulus bill

    "Hindsight is 20/20," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid Tuesday
    Bill makes exception for bonuses in pre-existing contracts, effectively exempting AIG
    Senate originally passed amendment to bill, taxing bonuses
    Amendment was stripped in final negotiations on the bill

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Democratic leaders scrambling to strip AIG executives of bonuses are having a hard time answering a key question: Why didn't Congress act to prevent the bonuses in the first place?


    Sen. Chris Dodd says he has no idea how the exemption clause got inserted into the recent stimulus bill.

    "There's always more we can do, and hindsight is 20/20," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid Tuesday.

    But though some lawmakers did move to prevent bonuses in the stimulus bill last month, the final language actually makes an exception for pre-existing contracts, effectively exempting AIG.

    Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Connecticut, who originally proposed the executive compensation provision, said he did not include the exemption clause, which said new rules "shall not be construed to prohibit any bonus payment required to be paid pursuant to a written employment contract executed on or before February 11, 2009."

    In an interview with CNN, Dodd denied inserting that exemption at the 11th hour, and insisted he doesn't know how it got there.

    "When I wrote the language there was no such language like that," Dodd told CNN Tuesday.

    Multiple Senate Democratic leadership sources also deny knowing how the exemption got into the bill.

    The mystery isn't just how what was effectively a protection for AIG was put into the stimulus bill -- it's also how a provision intended to prevent AIG from giving executive bonuses, was taken out.

    The Senate passed a bipartisan amendment proposed by Sen. Olympia Snowe, R- Maine, and Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, that would have taxed bonuses on any company getting federal bailout dollars, if the company didn't pay back the bonus money to the government.

    But the idea was stripped from the stimulus bill during hurried, closed-door negotiations with the White House and House of Representatives.

    Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Montana, who is now pursing a similar bonus tax idea in the wake of outrage over AIG, said it was a mistake to drop it from the stimulus bill. He made a stunning admission. Watch why Americans are angry »

    "Frankly it was such a rush -- we're talking about the stimulus bill now -- to get it passed, I didn't have time and other conferees didn't have time to address many of the provisions that were modified significantly," said Baucus.

    "We shouldn't be here. That should have passed, but it didn't," he said.iReport.com: Sound off on AIG

    Snowe chastised colleagues for expressing outrage about AIG's bonuses, when just last month they did away with her amendment intended to prevent it.

    "We tried. It simply didn't happen, and that's a tragedy, given what's happened today," Snowe told CNN in an interview.

    Majority Leader Reid would not directly answer a question from CNN about whether that was a mistake. [/rquoter]
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,797
    Likes Received:
    20,456
    Once again the familiar egg on basso's face.
     
  10. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
    another freeper weighs in.

    [rquoter]Stimulus backroom deal backfires
    Tuesday, March 17, 2009 | 8:41 PM
    By Mark Matthews
    There is growing outrage over the AIG executive bonuses and now there is a new plan to get the money back. It was a backroom deal between Congress and the White House that led to those bonuses and the whole mess is now threatening to unravel the president's agenda.

    During a late-night, closed door meeting last month, negotiators for the House, Senate and White House agreed to strip an amendment to the stimulus bill that would have restricted bonuses to any company receiving federal bailout funds. Instead of that measure, another measure by Senator Chris Dodd (D) from Connecticut was inserted that limited "executive compensation," but specifically exempted bonuses.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D) of Nevada was in on those closed door negotiations when the bonus limitation was stripped from the stimulus bill.

    "I'm wondering sir, if that was a mistake by Democrats to drop that and you wish you hadn't at this time?" asked a reporter.
    "I think we should look at what we did put in the bill. We did put the Dodd language..." said Senator Reid.

    Senator Reid never addressed whether it was a mistake, but Republican leaders were all over it.

    "Corporation executives that run their corporation into the ground, should not be rewarded for doing that," said Senator Chuck Grassley (R) of Iowa.

    "It's shocking that they would -- the administration would come to us now and act surprised about these contracts. Why didn't they ask the question two weeks ago before they gave them $30 billion?" said Sen. Mitch McConnell (R), the Minority leader.

    New York's attorney general has been investigating the AIG bonuses.

    In a letter to the chair of the House Banking Committee he said the top bonus was more than $6.4 million. The top 10 bonuses add up to $42 million total and 73 AIG employees received bonuses of $1 million or more.

    Congressional Democrats have a plan to get the bonus money back by imposing a huge 91 percent tax on it.

    "The only way you can get the money back is to tax it back," said Representative Steve Israel (D) of New York.

    But having Congress go after the money doesn't really help restore confidence in the president or his treasury secretary who signed off on the bonuses before the president was against them.

    "The president is going to have to take a much more decisive stand. He's going to have to really get involved," said ABC7's political analyst Bruce Cain.

    Professor Cain says the president is still expressing confidence in his treasury secretary, but Timothy Geithner's credibility has become a political liability.

    "And I don't think he can allow the secretary of the treasury to be the spokesperson on this issue any longer. I think he, Barack Obama, has to be the person who takes the questions, who makes the decisions who seems to be in charge of this issue. I think Geithner just can't do it," said Professor Cain.

    Professor Cain says nothing less than the president's agenda is at stake.

    "If he can't live up to that moment, then he's got a problem that's going to make a lot of things unravel. So this is a defining moment for his presidency," says Professor Cain.

    On Tuesday, Geithner wrote a letter to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D) promising that in the future, AIG bonuses will be subject to the strict executive compensation provisions in the stimulus package, but bonuses written prior to February 1, 2009 are exempt.

    ABC News reports there are another $230 million in AIG bonuses due to be paid out later this year.

    AIG's chief executive testifies before Congress on Wednesday.[/rquoter]
     
  11. DCkid

    DCkid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Messages:
    9,661
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Where did you see that? It seems like there's just a bunch of confusion.

    From CNN:

    In an interview with CNN, Dodd denied inserting that exemption at the 11th hour, and insisted he doesn't know how it got there.

    "When I wrote the language there was no such language like that," Dodd told CNN Tuesday.

    Multiple Senate Democratic leadership sources also deny knowing how the exemption got into the bill.

    The mystery isn't just how what was effectively a protection for AIG was put into the stimulus bill -- it's also how a provision intended to prevent AIG from giving executive bonuses, was taken out.
     
  12. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    I don't care if the thread is inaccurate, can we still Tar-and-Feather Chris Dodd?
     
  13. Northside Storm

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    11,262
    Likes Received:
    450
    This is beginning to look like the Dems have no idea what the hell is going on, although the fact that they already have a plan in motion to recoup the losses and the fact that Obama brought this up in the first place does reflect well on the Administration.
     
  14. DCkid

    DCkid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Messages:
    9,661
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Does it? I mean it had already gotten out to the public. I don't think he had a choice but to show disdain.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,810
    Likes Received:
    41,282
    For the last time in this turd of a thread - section 111 does not apply to AIGFP employees.
     
  16. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    During and around the stimulus and TARP-2 debates, everyone was up in arms about bonuses and executive compensation, but almost everyone agreed that any changes or requirements would have to be done going forward and there were all sorts of problems trying to change it retroactively. The bonus payments are the same debate as the executive compensation limits - it's all the same thing.

    It sucks, but even if you take out that clause, the gov't couldn't legally go back and undo those bonuses, just as they couldn't go back and undo people's previously guaranteed compensation. The outrage now is because these AIG bonuses became public in the last week and it's good political posturing.
     
  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,897
    Likes Received:
    39,872
    Love it.

    You wrote the bill. The passed the bill into law. You are befuddled by language in the bill you've never seen before.

    I seem to recall Dodd and his boys saying they needed to vote on the stimulus as fast as possible and that everyone had their chance to read it.
     
  18. luckystrikes

    luckystrikes Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    18

    Personally, I don't think that ANYTHING they've done so far reflects well on this joke of an administration.
     
  19. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,352
    Likes Received:
    9,286
    scream a little louder- the american people can't hear you.
     
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,810
    Likes Received:
    41,282
    The american people aren't represented by the ignorance of the FREEPER forums. That is why you are irrelevant.
     

Share This Page