That thread on ghosts got me to thinking about something (oh, God, here he goes again! ). Whenever things like ESP, ghosts, talking to the dead, existence of life on other planets, even God are brought up, there are always going to be skeptics. No biggie there. However, there are also individuals, clubs and magazines dedicated to de-bunking everything from ghosts to alternative medicine. Besides thinking how sad it must be to spend your life not being able to appreciate the wonder and possibility of it all, I try to understand how we can be dismissive of thigs so quickly. I think to all my history lessons when people believed the world was flat, that the earth was the center of the universe, that we are all solid (which of course we aren't), etc. etc. Anytime someone said something to the contrary, they were ridiculed. Hell, Gallileo had to recant or get his head chopped off when he said the world wasn't the center of the universe! Which, finally, brings me to the concept of proving it. With all the things we can't prove, here's one to add to the list: Pick a family member, close friend - someone you care about deeply. Ok, do you love this person? Prove it. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
Right now outlaw has me confused about everything. I am not sure what I can prove and what I can't anymore...especially who I love.
I married the woman I said I loved. That's proof anough, right? BTW... Maine was wonderful, glad to be back in the saddle! ------------------
btw...in my book, if you have to prove it, it doesn't exist. Also, I don't think love exists unless it is mutual. Otherwise, you are talking about devotion or infatuation. Love cannot be proved by trying, unless you are in high school or a Hollywood movie. I can express love. But to prove it takes time or an extraordinary event that impacts you and/or the other person into a realization of the bond. Just have faith; your love will be felt and reciprocated. Maybe the best way to prove it to a third party is to take you to Boulder with me, and you can see heyschweetie's eyes at the airport. But how I prove it to her, is a combination of consistency over time mixed with some memorable, singular events and how we reacted to them. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited September 13, 2000).]
mc mark: Marrying someone isn't proof otherwise the divorce rate would be 0% instead of 51%. Marriage is not a way to prove love. It doesn't mean you don't love your wife. It just means that marriage, itself, does not constitute a feeling. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
To me, love is sacrifice. Love of a girlfriend, love of a parent, brother, you name it - to me it's sacrifice. I have given up many weekends (with friends traveling, for instance) over the last three years to care for ailing family members. I did it out of love, and never asked for a durn thing in return. My girlfriend gave up so much, as well, to help me through that. She had the courage to stand by in some horribly rough times when she could have run away and had a good time. She gave up her time to spend more time with me, whenever I had it available. That's her sacrifice on my behalf. It's very difficult to put into words how much genuine sacrifice went on through that period. That's been my experience with true love. ------------------ Clutch Goons, Inc.
oh no...Kagy is bound to come in now with his semantic arguments of little conviction except for the purity of arguments for arguments sake. Before he does...what is love is my entire argument about what is racism. Society may have a definition, but really passionate words like these are attached to individual experience. Define the levels of passion displayed in context, and then you can find the levels of definitions and apply them in context. Any outdated philosophers from Texas state schools out there who want to take on a post-deconstruction cultural anthropologist/linquist about this...meet me at Valhalla tonight. And you have to buy me a beer everytime you backpedal by saying the word "Objectivity" or use a Socratic question to make a rebuttal.
jeff, Yes, I was accually being a bit silly. I agree with HP in a way. There really isn't a way to prove love. ------------------
okay, I'll play along too. I looked up "love" in my dictionary. 2 of them stood out. 1.a strong fondness or enthusiasm 2.deep affection and warm feeling for another. I'll assume it's 2, because it is too easy to prove you love someone using 1. How do you prove you have deep affection for someone? You do things for or with them that you wouldn't do for or with others. You share things you would hide from most. As Keely pointed out, you make sacrifices you wouldn't necessarily make for other people. And As heypartner pointed out ... the many nuances of affection between each other over time. my two cents. ------------------ I am so exasperated that I could expectorate.
dictionary.com defines love, amongst other things(like a nil score in tennis) as follows:- love (lv) n. 1.A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness. 2.A feeling of intense desire and attraction toward a person with whom one is disposed to make a pair; the emotion of sex and romance. 3.Sexual passion. 4.Sexual intercourse. 5.A love affair. 6.An intense emotional attachment, as for a pet or treasured object. 7.A strong predilection or enthusiasm: a love of language. I would find it pretty easy to prove that I love someone(or something) by satisfying most of the above definitions. However, I think the real issue at hand is that people really find it difficult to define love in their own minds. By literal meaning alone, it is easy to prove that you love something, but reality is that, like most human emotions, people find it difficult to quantify. Keeley and Crisco - I don't really share your view on sacrifice. I see sacrifice as just of the many manifestations of love, and not necessarily one that is "a given". For instance, I think that spending time with someone a better indication of love, whether you make a sacrifice to do it or not. Of course, having said that, my wife is alway more appreciative if I give up watching a Rockets game to spend time with her than if it were just a scheduled night off, so maybe you're right . Keeley, obviously for you your love for you family has lead you to make many sacrifices to care for them, but would it mean you love them any less is you didn't have to make any sacrifices to care for them? I don't think so. ------------------ Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info [This message has been edited by davo (edited September 13, 2000).]
keely: Very good post. Sacrifice is indeed a component. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
What about all the soldiers who died at war. Specifically, World Wars 1 & 2. They died for their love of country. There were many who, were not drafted, signed up to fight for there belief in freedom. To me, there is no greater way of proving you LOVE something, than dying for it. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
I reflected a bit on what I posted, Davo - And of course, you're spot on. The example that I gave was but a demonstration of how I have shown love for people most recently. Of course if there were no necessary sacrifices, I would love the people that I love no less. I find it hard to pinpoint love because 'love' is so complex yet simple at the same time - so many traits, emotions, and actions rolled into one word. Love is walking your dog. It's scratching your lover's back. It's calling your grandmother. It's listening, a loving look, doing a favor, feeling sympathy, helping someone. It's also the reason to be, to survive, to prosper... it's so many things all at the same time. I could go back and clean up that original post, but that takes the fun out of this [uh, but I will clean this one up ] ------------------ Clutch Goons, Inc. [This message has been edited by keeley (edited September 13, 2000).]
Love John Lennon Love is real, real is love Love is feeling, feeling love Love is wanting to be loved Love is touch, touch is love Love is reaching, reaching love Love is asking to be loved Love is you You and me Love is knowing We can be Love is free, free is love Love is living, living love Love is needing to be loved ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know. [This message has been edited by BobFinn* (edited September 13, 2000).]
The question Jeff is asking comes from one of my favorite movies "Contact". That is one of the best movies I have seen because it deals with proving the existance of God and life on other planets, how they interact, how if you believe in one do you believe in another, etc... That being said, somethings in life are meant to never prove. If you can prove everything and anything, or if you can disprove anything and everything, doesn't that makes us Gods? Isn't one of the purposes of us living life is to see miracles and not understand their wonder? If we can prove that God exists or that love exists, then we will then be able to control one or the other and even manipulate it. I say, love exists because I get the butterflies in my stomach when I see my beautiful girlfriend and the belly that grows each and everyday. I say love exists because when I saw the sonogram last week, I was overtaken with emotion that I have never felt in my life. I know God exists because how else can you explain the sheer perfection of the human body? The way its built? The way everything is exactly where its needed? The way our defense system can tell the difference between a virus and bacteria? The way the heart pumps the same amount of oxygen exactly when you need it? Or how about the perfection of the human brain? If we could sit here and prove all of this, then lets just call each other Gods and take all the splendor and wonder of life most precious things. Why don't I just cut the BS and get back to work? ------------------ I Want To Thank God For Making Me A Rocketfan
I agree, Contact was a good movie for that reason. It makes you think seriously all the way through the movie. Watch it twice. some things jump out at you the second time you watch it. ------------------ humble, but hungry.
Sorry, guys, I hated Contact - thought it was the biggest bunch of drivel in a pseudo-intellectual costume. Not saying you are dumb for liking it, just my opinion. Jeff, I can prove love because I say so and everything I say is true. Therefore, when I tell my dog that I love him, that is real! Love cannot be explained by actions because no one can truly know what is on another's mind. In other words, one may sacrifice and say that is the proof, when in reality the person just likes to sacrifice, or anything else. There is no way to prove one's motive. This is just a mental exercise that has no solution. Just as I cannot prove that none of you exist - that you are just figmetnts of my imagination (or the evil genius's - from Descartes). Due to the "just a mental exercise" aspect, it really does not work as an argument for proving anything else exists. ------------------ Talking to a dead hare about art
I think we first have to define what we mean by "love." The word is used rather loosely in our society. That ought to be obvious when you have people saying they love basketball, pizza, their dog, and their wife all without even blinking an eye. ------------------
I'm going to agree with keeley/'partner/Finn* and go with sacrificing love. Of course there are different SORTS of love: I LOVE that pizza Send my LOVE to your mother etc But I THINK the love that Jeff was asking about is the sacrifice-type love those guys are talking about. A story I remember describes love: A couple was in scuba diving on their honeymoon at the Great Barrier Reef, Australia. Suddenly the woman turns around and sees a 5 meter long Great White Shark coming right at her, jaws open wide. At the last second her husband puts himself in the way and the shark eats him instead. Now that's a pretty good example of love. Laying down your life for someone shows your love for them! ------------------
