1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Pro Basketball Talk/NBC] The Flip Side: Shane Battier lives again

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by rockets934life, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. rockets934life

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    15,312
    Likes Received:
    249
    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/the-flip-side-shane-battier-lives-again.php
     
  2. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    11,323
    Likes Received:
    4,119
    When people use impact as a verb it irks me in ways I cannot explain. How hard is it to know when and how to use certain words? These writers have proofreaders and yet the crap still spills through.

    There isn't really anything newly hashed here. Battier had possibly the worst season I've ever seen him play last season. For some reason the Rockets management wants us to believe that Trevor was the cause of this. While I have the biggest man crush on Battier a person could have, I still have a hard time understanding how a player who misses open shots consistently, never demands the ball, and is getting old is a better fit than a young (albeit overpaid) player with athleticism. I think it really speaks to what went down behind the scenes with Battier and Co. I think Shane does a lot we don't see (not necessarily the intangibles people refer to, more leadership and advice) and the Rockets management loves him for it.

    Make no mistake, it isn't by accident that every single one of Shane's coaches has said that he is one of the best he has ever coached. He has a heart and will that is unmatched, while Ariza was visibly apathetic throughout the course of the season. I think in the end Battier will be a great mentor to a player like Chase, and show Chase how to be good on both ends of the floor. This marks his greatest worth.
     
  3. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,575
    It's no coincidence that Battier's middle name is "Courtney."

    Courtney Battier lives again in his own form and will continue to live even if he doesn't resign in the form of his son Courtney Lee.

    <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KRiNnPf3GJs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KRiNnPf3GJs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
     
    #3 Carl Herrera, Aug 14, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  4. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,163
    Likes Received:
    1,879
    Another crap writer.
     
  5. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,432
    Likes Received:
    13,390
    Team defense wins championships. It helps to have a "lock-down" defender, but one can think of a lot of championship teams that had defensive specialists, but not true "lock-down" defenders at the wing. The recent Celtics, the 2000's Lakers (no, Rick Fox doesn't count as a lock-down defender...not like a Ron Artest does, imo). Interior defense, today, is considerably more important.

    Clearly it's a defensive downgrade, but I don't think a huge one. Having a player uniquely qualified to guard the 2 position I actually think is a help. Ariza and Battier can both slide over there, but were at times overmatched from a speed perspective. Plus, Morey feels comfortable that Lee can slide over to guard the 3, or 1 in some cases.

    From the Rockets perspective, the bigger signal to me was the pick-up of Brad Miller. The team needed to get taller and better defensively on the interior. Miller is tall, but will never be known as a good defensive big. Not that there were/are a ton of those out there, but to the extent Miller takes minutes from Hayes or Hill, that's trading defense for offense, and not something I think the team necessarily needed. Hope Morey proves me wrong on that one.
     
  6. RV6

    RV6 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    25,522
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    I always thought that was included under intangibles?
     
  7. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,191
    Likes Received:
    3,407
    I think the move says more about CBud than Battier. I really don't believe Morey is counting on Battier to play 30+mpg at pre-2008 levels. Which leads me to believe they think Budinger is ready for starter minutes at the 3. Especially because Battier would likely be a major piece as an expiring if we make a major move.

    Whatever one may think of Ariza vs Lee, at least Ariza fills more of a need as a 2/3. Whereas Lee is much less versatile.
     
  8. Hippieloser

    Hippieloser Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,272
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    I agree that Budinger is the guy who made this look like a good move for the Rockets, but I think they're absolutely counting on Battier playing big minutes.
     
  9. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    16,245
    Likes Received:
    2,026
    We might even see some Jared Jeffries contributions this season.


    Oh well, now we can't get that dream offensive lineup of Chuck Hayes, Jeffries, Battier, Ariza and Lowry. Though they'da held teams to 60 points.
     
  10. wikiwiki

    wikiwiki Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    26
    What's wrong with that? Impact is a verb (as well as being a noun).
     
  11. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,748
    The Teflon Don outlasts another challenge
     
  12. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Messages:
    7,157
    Likes Received:
    518
    I think it says more about upgrading the team in the future more than anything. For all Battiers intangibles we have been trying to upgrade at the 3 since forever. Artest didn't work, Ariza was not the answer and Lee is not his replacement.

    If we want to improve this Rocket team without changing it drastically the one place we might have a shot at doing that is at the small forward position.

    We are not going to find a better center than Yao. We are not going to improve at the PG spot unless we get cp3 and trade a whole lot of assets, We won't get a better 2 guard for martin unless we do the same. All of the pf's that were available have been moved... Bosh, Amare,Boozer, Jefferson. So that leaves us the SF spot. With Ariza on the team we had Battier Budinger and Ariza with no room for another SF. If we made a trade certainly no one would want Ariza back for someone better. The only sf left that someone might have interest in would be Budinger. But then we would have (for example) Iggy, Ariza , Battier. That just doesn't work in so many ways.

    Now we only have Cbud and battier. If the opportunity presents it self to improve the SF spot. No problem. We just send them Bud along with draft picks and cap filler and we are ready. Even if they don't want Cbud in the deal the logjam is only for one year as Battier is on his last year making him desirable as an easy contract totake a chance on.

    And if we do nothing, Budinger and battier are much more suited for this team as itis now. They will both be 5 th options when they are on the floor with the exception when Hayes is out there. They both will accept that role and do it with vigor. Ariza never would have accepted that role, never.

    So the door is open for a trade at the SF and even if that does not happen we are better just because we got rid of Ariza. He may have adjusted as a role player but my gut says he would not have been happy and wanted more and expected more. He got his shot to prove he deserved more and failed miserably. He is a good role player provided he knows his role. But even then as a role player he is only slightly better than Battier. I am not comparing talent. I am comparing results. Ariza gets more rebounds assist but he also takes a lot of high risks on defense and bad shots on offense and has pouting moments at times.

    He is a bad team player when he doesn't get what he wants. Why take the chance. And now we don't have too. Plus we got a great backup at the 2. Lee solidified the 2 spot and made us better there. Dumping Ariza weakens us slightly at the3 but makes us overall a stronger team. ANd there now exist an easier avenu to improve this team overall by signing Iggy without giving up a starter.
     
  13. parmesh

    parmesh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    31
    Carl Herrera is on drugs.
     
  14. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    75,320
    Likes Received:
    124,656
    I wonder why every writer seems to think we drafted Lee to play SF with Martin and not SG with Bud. Just because we traded a SF doesn't mean we got one in return. If anything Lee will hide Bud's D and Batt will hide Martin's
     
  15. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,191
    Likes Received:
    3,407
    Agree that SF position is the one we can target for an upgrade. Disagree that trading Ariza for Lee, unless we use that TE somehow, help us with that. For two reasons.

    1. Ariza is easier to trade than Lee, and as a SF allows the other team to fill their need at the position immediately.
    2. Without Ariza, Budinger becomes almost a certain addition to any trade for a SF. And if we get a rental type player like Melo, there's no insurance for beyond next year. Because Lee can't play SF full time.

    If we are gearing to make another move, then the key in the deal is the TE and/or extra money saved(to fit Les' budget). I don't think the players involved have anything to do with it.
     
  16. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,570
    Likes Received:
    469
    If we are in the playoffs trying to get a stop. This will be the lineup Scola, Yao, Battier, Lee, and Lowry. This team could give some teams a fit trying to score. If we're hot that night and scoring from all over than AB and Martin will replace Lee and Lowry. We are basically renting Lee for one year, if he works, than we use some of Jeffires and/or Shane's money for Lee. Because it is hopeful that Bud learns to play D at a high rate.
     
  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,432
    Likes Received:
    13,390
    true, but clearly the same lineup replacing lee with ariza would be better defensively. hence its a downgrade defensively. i'm way in favor of the trade, but you can't argue the team didn't take a step back in the d department.
     
  18. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,237
    Likes Received:
    29,726
    I don't think we know for sure Ariza is a better defensive player than Lee. We'll have to see Lee play more to judge more accurately. Ariza has the size advantage. Lee may be quicker. From what I have heard so far, Lee seems to be a more disciplined team defender than Ariza.
     
  19. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,432
    Likes Received:
    13,390
    Maybe he'll get better, and not that he's bad, but two years of lee and he is not the defender ariza is. We do know because we've seen them both play in the league for long enough now.
     
  20. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,237
    Likes Received:
    29,726
    I didn't see Lee much with NJ. My impression of him was all from Orlando's playoff run a year ago. And he was pretty good playing defense. That's not an easy thing for a rookie, adjusting to NBA talents like Kobe Bryant. I still think we need to suspend judgment until we see him play with us. BTW, I prefer Battier over Ariza on defense.
     

Share This Page