Personally, I don't want anything forced on you, but prayer needs to be allowed somehow, someway. I believe...faith is a powerful, positive force that needs to be experienced. Perhaps, unfortunately only believers realize the virtues of faith and what it can do. ------------------ It's my way or the highway!
But prayer *IS* allowed. There are no restrictions on students praying during school except that when such prayer would disrupt the class (In other words, a student couldn't just get up in the middle of class, sit in the middle of the floor, and recite aloud a prayer). A student can silently give a prayer whenever they want. Please quit talking as if students are forced into a position where they can't pray! They can. What is illegal, however, is a school enforced or sponsored prayer. The school nor an of the officials, teachers, etc. may initiate and force students to participate in prayer. I agree that faith is a powerful motivator for people, but completely disagree that it is necessarily positive. Too many atrocities have been committed with faith for such a statement to be true. Nor does a person need faith in order to be a productive, nondisruptive, and happy member of society. As an atheist I found the concept that faith (And far too often this is implied to mean Christian faith. Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, etc. need not apply) will somehow cure the ills of the US' education problems silly. I admit that I don't what will solve these problems, but faith is not the answer. Lord Tree ------------------ Who is Lain?
"But prayer *IS* allowed. There are no restrictions on students praying during school except that when such prayer would disrupt the class (In other words, a student couldn't just get up in the middle of class, sit in the middle of the floor, and recite aloud a prayer). " Can I get an amen from the congregation? ------------------ Hey now, Hey now, don't Dream it's over...
I've said it once I'll say it again , You kicked God out of your schools so the cover has been lifted . All hell is going to break loose in the school system if you dont allow God to be in your schools ------------------ Vice President of Executive Operations of the Sean Colson Fan Club http://bbs.babitze.com
I have many concerns about injecting school-sponsored faith into our schools. Aside from the fact that it's impossible to design a completely inclusive prayer, I worry that the same religious facism that plagued my junior high would simply get worse when there is an overt school-sponsorship of the religious message. At my junior high school back in Amarillo, Texas, people took religion too far. Thugs used religion as an excuse to harrass people. They'd walk up and ask if you were a Christian or if you accepted Jesus, and if you didn't, they were likely to slam your head through a closed window (this actually happened to a guy who later became a friend of mine. As a matter of fact, this particular guy was singled out as being a "devil worshipper" simply because he refused to toe the party line and had long hair and listened to heavy metal, and he was regularly beaten up and harrassed by the Religious Fascists at the school.) And in speech class when we were told to write a speech listing our priorities, one girl was hounded and harrassed when she had the gall to not list God as her top priority. And I won't even start on the harrassment that the few Jewish students (and the one Hindi student) received at the hands of these jerks. Granted, these people are an extreme (and while they certainly claimed to be doing God's work, they weren't really following Christian ideals), but injecting religion into a school can simply be another point which divides people. And it can be used as an excuse to shun people or to be outright hostile to them. Religion simply brings out another area where students are different and can divide students rather than bring them together (even when there aren't bullies using religion as an excuse to beat people up). Adding religion to schools could just as easily make some students feel even more isolated from the rest of the school. I'm just not interested in creating more division in our schools. ------------------ Houston Sports Board
No one kicked God out of anywhere. What happened is some people realized it might be a good idea to enforce that thing called the first ammendment. Not everyone believes in your God. Some people don't believe in God at all. It is their right and their perogative to worship how they choose. Prayer can still happen in school if the participants want. I distinctly remember prayer circles around the flag pole at my high school. But ultimately the issue of prayer and worship is a decision left to the individual person. Forcing religion on others has never solved anything. In fact, historically speaking, forcing religion on others has done nothing but create problems and suffering. The problem is not a lack of prayer. The problem lies elsewhere. Lord Tree (I've posted twice in a DAY! WOW! ) ------------------ Who is Lain?
But the 2nd Amendment can go to hell. student: "God, why didn't you stop the shootings at Columbine?" God: "I'm not allowed in school." ------------------ "I'll be gettin real drunk and making fun of everybody"
But they were following the example set for them by Christians throughout the history of the faith, force people to believe or pay the price. ------------------
I don't have a problem with prayer, but what about other forms of it? What if a child wanted to meditate for 15 minutes - about the average for a short Buddhist, Taoist or Hindu meditation? What if another child insisted on pulling out his/her prayer rug and praying/chanting to Mecca during school hours as Islam requires? What if a Hare Krishna child wanted to chant? What if a Wiccan child wanted to sing to Mother Earth? The problem with school-sponsored prayer is that it tramples on the beliefs of those who don't believe in "God." Jews and, to a lesser extent, Muslims could handle a non-denominational prayer in school, but the others simply could not. Buddhists do not believe in God. They are non-theistic. It is just as likely that a Hindu pray to a goddess as it is that they pray to a god. Mother Earth isn't even a "goddess" to Wiccan believers. That doesn't even account for parents who prefer their child remain agnostic or atheist. That is their choice as a parent no matter what any of us may think. Teachers have a tough enough job without having to patrol the beliefs of children. I am completely comfortable with the notion of more spirituality in schools. In fact, I am in favor of it. My question is, "Which spirituality?" In a recent survey, 75% of Americans supported government funding of faith based programs. However, when Islamic, Buddhist and Hindu faiths were added to the equation, support dropped to less than a third. The fact is that most Americans are in favor of things like prayer in school as long as it means their version of prayer. As soon as it deviates from that norm, the support disappears. In order to protect the choices of parents, all faiths must be equally represented. That, obviously, isn't possible. Because of that, mixing prayer in schools is not only disrespectful to those children and parents of differing faiths, it is ignoring their freedom of religion. ------------------ And then, depression set in...
That is some kinda statement to make CriscoKidd. ... as much as I would like that to be true, I am sure it isn't. For example, if someone was in a position to imminently seriously harm a loved one I would as sure as sunshine shoot the fool to kingdom come if I could,..it might be a good idea to enforce that thing called the second ammendment ............. But I digress, if you truly understand the concept of religious faith, you will realize the powerful influence it has in helping each of us find the good in our hearts rather than the evil. The seeds of kindness rather than the seeds of violence. God bless you all. ------------------ It's my way or the highway!
Jeff, you deliver some very valid statements and I certainly agree with you on equalness, but like I said somehow, someway. ------------------ It's my way or the highway!
If parents are unhappy about the anti-prayer laws, then they can send their kids to religious schools. ------------------ Well that's it, the season's over. Protrolls.com! I've got message boards up and running, feel free to Troll them.
If parents care about the society their children will grow up in, they will support prayer in public school. ------------------ It's my way or the highway!
if people want to pray, no one can stop them. no one says you cant bow ur head and pray to "god" at school. if students want to pray, no one can stop them. if "god" is really what they are thinking of they need no group, nor leader to show them the way. ------------------ im a girl...YAY!!!
Subject: Worth Repeating Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's sub-committee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript: "Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." "The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart." "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent." "I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. "I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today": Your laws ignore our deepest needs, Your words are empty air. You've stripped away our heritage, You've outlawed simple prayer. Now gunshots fill our classrooms, And precious children die. You seek for answers everywhere, And ask the question "Why?" You regulate restrictive laws, Through legislative creed. And yet you fail to understand, That God is what we need! "Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs - politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. "Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will not be squelched! We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic needs are being ignored. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God!" "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA - I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!" Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech. Please send this out to everyone you can!!! ------------------ It's my way or the highway!
So, are you, or the Columbine families proposing that if the students were forced to pray in school, then these tragedies wouldn't have occured? Because anyone can pray in school, it just can't be led by staff, it must be student initiated. Nor can people be forced to pray. ------------------ www.swirve.com You had me at pagina.
I've said it once I'll say it again , You kicked God out of your schools so the cover has been lifted . All hell is going to break loose in the school system if you dont allow God to be in your schools Do you even understand the law, or do you just spout the garbage you hear from extremists? ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
RM95 , your political spin on faith is very disturbing . ------------------ Vice President of Executive Operations of the Sean Colson Fan Club http://bbs.babitze.com
I had a tough time thinking about wether to post in this topic but anyways. Can someone explain to me how forcing people to pray will stop violence? ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams and Lisa Malosky fan club. atheistalliance.org
