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Possible Analysis We Can Agree on-- an Article from a Professor in Pakistan

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Sep 25, 2001.

  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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  2. glynch

    glynch Member

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    The Professor's article:

    The View from Islamabad
    Black Tuesday
    By Pervez Hoodbhoy

    Samuel Huntington's evil desire for a clash between civilizations may well come true after Tuesday's terror attacks. The crack that divided Muslims everywhere from the rest of the world is no longer a crack. It is a gulf, that if not bridged, will surely destroy both.

    For much of the world, it was the indescribable savagery of seeing jet-loads of innocent human beings piloted into buildings filled with other innocent human beings. It was the sheer horror of watching people jump from the 80th floor of the collapsing World Trade Centre rather than be consumed by the inferno inside.

    Yes, it is true that many Muslims also saw it exactly this way, and felt the searing agony no less sharply. The heads of states of Muslim countries, Saddam Hussein excepted, condemned the attacks. Leaders of Muslim communities in the US, Canada, Britain, Europe, and Australia have made impassioned denunciations and pleaded for the need to distinguish between ordinary Muslims and extremists.

    But the pretence that reality goes no further must be abandoned because this merely obfuscates facts and slows down the search for solutions. One would like to dismiss televised images showing Palestinian expressions of joy as unrepresentative, reflective only of the crass political immaturity of a handful. But this may be wishful thinking. Similarly, Pakistan Television, operating under strict control of the government, is attempting to portray a nation united in condemnation of the attack. Here too, the truth lies elsewhere, as I learn from students at my university here in Islamabad, from conversations with people in the streets, and from the Urdu press. A friend tells me that crowds gathered around public TV sets at Islamabad airport had cheered as the WTC came crashing down. It makes one feel sick from inside.

    A bizarre new world awaits us, where old rules of social and political behavior have broken down and new ones are yet to defined. Catapulted into a situation of darkness and horror by the extraordinary force of events, as rational human beings we must urgently formulate a response that is moral, and not based upon considerations of power and practicality. This requires beginning with a clearly defined moral supposition - the fundamental equality of all human beings. It also requires that we must proceed according to a definite sequence of steps, the order of which is not interchangeable.

    Before all else, Black Tuesday's mass murder must be condemned in the harshest possible terms without qualification or condition, without seeking causes or reasons that may even remotely be used to justify it, and without regard for the national identity of the victims or the perpetrators. The demented, suicidal, fury of the attackers led to heinous acts of indiscriminate and wholesale murder that have changed the world for the worse. A moral position must begin with unequivocal condemnation, the absence of which could eliminate even the language by which people can communicate.

    Analysis comes second, but it is just as essential. No "terrorist" gene is known to exist or is likely to be found. Therefore, surely the attackers, and their supporters, who were all presumably born normal, were afflicted by something that caused their metamorphosis from normal human beings capable of gentleness and affection into desperate, maddened, fiends with nothing but murder in their hearts and minds. What was that?

    Tragically, CNN and the US media have so far made little attempt to understand this affliction. The cost for this omission, if it is to stay this way, cannot be anything but terrible. What we have seen is probably the first of similar tragedies that may come to define the 21st century as the century of terror. There is much claptrap about "fighting terrorism" and billions are likely to be poured into surveillance, fortifications, and emergency plans, not to mention the ridiculous idea of missile defence systems. But, as a handful of suicide bombers armed with no more than knives and box-cutters have shown with such devastating effectiveness, all this means precisely nothing. Modern nations are far too vulnerable to be protected - a suitcase nuclear device could flatten not just a building or two, but all of Manhattan. [*See footnote] Therefore, the simple logic of survival says that the chances of survival are best if one goes to the roots of terror.

    Only a fool can believe that the services of a suicidal terrorist can be purchased, or that they can be bred at will anywhere. Instead, their breeding grounds are in refugee camps and in other rubbish dumps of humanity, abandoned by civilization and left to rot. A global superpower, indifferent to their plight, and manifestly on the side of their tormentors, has bred boundless hatred for its policies. In supreme arrogance, indifferent to world opinion, the US openly sanctions daily dispossession and torture of the Palestinians by Israeli occupation forces. The deafening silence over the massacres in Qana, Sabra, and Shatila refugee camps, and the video-gamed slaughter by the Pentagon of 70,000 people in Iraq, has brought out the worst that humans are capable of. In the words of Robert Fisk, "those who claim to represent a crushed, humiliated population struck back with the wickedness and awesome cruelty of a doomed people".

    It is stupid and cruel to derive satisfaction from such revenge, or from the indisputable fact that Osama and his kind are the blowback of the CIAs misadventures in Afghanistan. Instead, the real question is: where do we, the inhabitants of this planet, go from here? What is the lesson to be learnt from the still smouldering ruins of the World Trade Centre?

    If the lesson is that America needs to assert its military might, then the future will be as grim as can be. Indeed, Secretary Colin Powell, has promised "more than a single reprisal raid". But against whom? And to what end? No one doubts that it is ridiculously easy for the US to unleash carnage. But the bodies of a few thousand dead Afghans will not bring peace, or reduce by one bit the chances of a still worse terrorist attack.

    This not an argument for inaction: Osama and his gang, as well as other such gangs, if they can be found, must be brought to justice. But indiscriminate slaughter can do nothing except add fuel to existing hatreds. Today, the US is the victim but the carpet-bombing of Afghanistan will cause it to squander the huge swell of sympathy in its favour the world over. Instead, it will create nothing but revulsion and promote never-ending tit-for-tat killings.

    Ultimately, the security of the United States lies in its re-engaging with the people of the world, especially with those that it has grievously harmed. As a great country, possessing an admirable constitution that protects the life and liberty of its citizens, it must extend its definition of humanity to cover all peoples of the world. It must respect international treaties such as those on greenhouse gases and biological weapons, stop trying to force a new Cold War by pushing through NMD, pay its UN dues, and cease the aggrandizement of wealth in the name of globalization.

    But it is not only the US that needs to learn new modes of behavior. There are important lessons for Muslims too, particularly those living in the US, Canada, and Europe. Last year I heard the arch-conservative head of Pakistan's Jamat-i-Islami, Qazi Husain Ahmad, begin his lecture before an American audience in Washington with high praise for a "pluralist society where I can wear the clothes I like, pray at a mosque, and preach my religion". Certainly, such freedoms do not exist for religious minorities in Pakistan, or in most Muslim countries. One hopes that the misplaced anger against innocent Muslims dissipates soon and such freedoms are not curtailed significantly. Nevertheless, there is a serious question as to whether this pluralism can persist forever, and if it does not, whose responsibility it will be.

    The problem is that immigrant Muslim communities have, by and large, chosen isolation over integration. In the long run this is a fundamentally unhealthy situation because it creates suspicion and friction, and makes living together ever so much harder. It also raises serious ethical questions about drawing upon the resources of what is perceived to be another society, for which one has hostile feelings. This is not an argument for doing away with one's Muslim identity. But, without closer interaction with the mainstream, pluralism will be threatened. Above all, survival of the community depends upon strongly emphasizing the difference between extremists and ordinary Muslims, and on purging from within jihadist elements committed to violence. Any member of the Muslim community who thinks that ordinary people in the US are fair game because of bad US government policies has no business being there.

    To echo George W. Bush, "let there be no mistake". But here the mistake will be to let the heart rule the head in the aftermath of utter horror, to bomb a helpless Afghan people into an even earlier period of the Stone Age, or to take similar actions that originate from the spine. Instead, in deference to a billion years of patient evolution, we need to hand over charge to the cerebellum. Else, survival of this particular species is far from guaranteed. CP

    Pervez Hoodbhoy is professor of physics at Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad.
     
  3. RocksMillenium

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    The link, conveniently labeled "Bush's War At Home and Abroad" is garbage. All this trash of people trying to blame Bush and claim it's "his war". It wasn't a couple of hours of an attack, about 7,000 people died. And it wasn't an isolated thing, this has been going on for years. U.S. embassies have been attack, the World Trade Center was bombed once, the Pentagon and the WTC were leveled, and this trash of people blaming Bush for this makes me sick. I don't agree with any of it. And I like how it tries to paint Osama bin Laden as the innocent victim being hunted down by "Big, Bad George Bush":

    Give me a break! The guy is a multi-millionaire, his father a multi-billionaire. His daughter is married to the Taliban. Why do they think the U.S. is freezing accounts!?
     
    #3 RocksMillenium, Sep 25, 2001
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2001
  4. haven

    haven Member

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    Well, maybe not glynch ;).

    I thought it was good, at least.

    Interesting how I've yet to hear a single good rebuttal to such articles. All rage, no logic.
     
  5. glynch

    glynch Member

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    RocksMillenium,

    I don't think you are quoting from the same post I'm offering (really) as a moderate post that I think many on this board might agree on. Please see the second post on this thread.

    I understand that many don't want to read "Counterpunch". I find believe it or not some of it to be too crazy or left wing for me.
    Though on this particular issue I'm tending to agree pretty much with them.
     
  6. RocksMillenium

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    Bad U.S. policies huh? Like the 140 million dollars worth of supplies they give to the people in Afghanistan? But if the United States is so bad, how about going over there and asking the people how the Taliban is treating them. On one side it's "It's bad for the terrorist to do what they did", but on the otherside it's "Going through the trouble to get them causes unneccessarily bloodshed". So what, the U.S. sits back and lets them constantly attack them, all the while protecting the leader of a country that people don't trust? It goes deeper then that.
     
  7. DREAMer

    DREAMer Member

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    I agree with most of what he said, but why on Earth do people immediately think the U.S. is going to go around the world carpet bombing any and everyone we feel like?

    When is the last time the U.S. did that?

    He even mentions the Gulf War, but when during the Gulf War did the U.S. bomb apartment buildings, hospitals, or other civilian buildings? Anything that was bombed was either directly or indirectly linked to either the Iraqi military or weapons development.

    Innocent people will die. Innocent people have died. Innocent people will always die. But, our country is not the mass murderers people around the globe try to paint us as.

    And, when people complain about the sanctions placed against Iraq, why don't they complain that Hussein is not complying with the terms of his surrender?

    Let's say your walking down the street and you have 3 extra combo meals from Wendy's, and there's a guy sitting along side the road, and as you come up he points a gun at you. Meanwhile, his wife and kids sit there starving, and a couple of his buddies try to assemble their weapons. You say, "If you stop pointing that gun at me, I'll give you this food". But, the guy refuses. Then someone walks up and sees what's going on. They say, why don't you just give them the food? They're obviously starving. You reply, "All I have asked of this man is to stop pointing that gun at me, but he refuses". If you give them the food will they stop pointing the gun at you, or might they even try to use it? Why won't this guy just put down the gun? You'll be glad to give them the food. It is your food.

    Some of your friends come up, and they have some food too. They say, well, why don't we just give him our food? You say, no problem, but at least wait for the guy to stop pointing that gun at me. They say, well that sounds fair.

    Then you start to thing, "Why isn't that Russian guy or that Chinese guy giving them any food? They both have some extra food on them. They don't particularly care if this guy shoots me or not..."
     
  8. Ty_Webb

    Ty_Webb Member

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    <b>But the bodies of a few thousand dead Afghans will not bring peace, or reduce by one bit the chances of a still worse terrorist attack. </B>

    It worked in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
     
  9. Ty_Webb

    Ty_Webb Member

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    btw, I am not advocating that is what we do, but that DID work.

    I almost totally agree with what DREAMer just said.
     
  10. RocksMillenium

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    Great post DREAMer.
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    The only thing I get out of the article is that this is how the world views America.

    Yes we are hardly perfect, but we are the most giving country in the entire planet.

    It sounds like he wants us to become the worlds police force, and I think that is exactly what is going to happen.

    We are not going to occupy Afganastan, nor are we going to carpet bomb it.

    We have to act smartly, and hopefully a new stronger world will emerge.

    Remember, Osama, can not live on sand alone.

    DaDakota
     
  12. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    Your colors shine now.

    You're dusgusting.
     
  13. sirhangover

    sirhangover Member

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    there is no justification for death glynch from our side or theirs in my opinion..you cannot justify that and your argument sucks all the way around.. thats why i have the perfect response for you--

    f*ck you..
     
  14. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Sirhangover,

    I agree with the first part of your post there is no justification for death glynch from our side or theirs in my opinion..you cannot justify that . So does the professor whose article I just posted.

    However,I beg to differ with the second part of your post.
     
  15. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    Your colors shine. Your analogy is poor. :D

    The Emperor of Japan actually cared about his people. I doubt we'll bomb the hell out of civilians in this scenario b/c the Taliban doesn't care... and they would just turn it around as an assault on Islam (and it is a bad thing to do to).

    But if we were Muslim, or if they were non-Muslim, people wouldn't be as horrified(it would still be horrific). As it stands, one has to be careful when waging a war against a poor nation that is so different from us. B/c Islam is the outlier in the Christian/Jew/Islam triad, everyone will be super sensitive about actions against a Muslim nation performed by a predominantly Christian nation. Those concerns are bs, though imo.

    We were attacked, essentially by the leaders of Afghanistan. They'll be lucky if their deserts (the entire nation) aren't turned into glass. (damn I should have practiced not speaking in anger for a few weeks longer)
     
  16. Mango

    Mango Member

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    I have a friend (Muslim) who is a native of Southern Lebanon and we both agreed over 6 years ago that there would never be peace between Israel and the Palestinians. The basis for our mutual opinion is that the Palestinians and the rest of the Muslim world will only be satisified when Israel is <b>gone</b>.

    The discussions about Arafat and Israel attempting to settle have already been done here, so I am not rehashing them. Did Pervez Hoodbhoy mention that Arafat should have tried to cut the best deal possible and accept it rather than continuing to hold out for more than he knew Israel could and would do? What did Hoodbhoy say about a solution to the Palestinian - Israeli peace stalemate?

    My solution? I wish that Arafat and the Muslim world could accept that Israel will exist, despite their hatred of the very thought. Anything less, is unrealistic.

    I am awaiting for the solutions presented by Hoodbhoy, haven, and glynch to the peace stalemate.



    Mango
     
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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  18. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Glynch:

    Interesting read.

    Da Dakota and Mango:

    Why didn't you tell me about this link? Or did you-all want to see me go through hell in typing the article?;)
     
  19. Mango

    Mango Member

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    I just dropped: <i>Haqqania madrasa</i> in the google search box and got plenty of hits.

    Let me know beforehand about future research projects.


    Mango
     
  20. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    I just like to make things hard sometimes.
     

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