remember all those trade possibilities at the begining of the year? can you mention some of the players we could of had in those deals??? thanks
It would hurt far too much my friend. The problem with foresight is that basically it does not exist. The problem with hindsight is we either have to be an ass and say "I told you so" which I rarely get to say, or " Damn, if only ......" which is lame, self-serving, and makes people like Jim Rhome and Peter Vecesy household names. Various Offers: Combinations of various Rocket's players were included for( to name a few ): Mo Taylor, Kittles, Gill, Van Horn (If Barkley's Exception came through, it didn't, no KVH), Mc Grady(several scenarios), Erv Johnson, Tim Thomas, Hughes, Camby, Ward, Mason, Mashburn & V. Lenard (So close it hurts), Derek Harper( This vet getting away was not any Rocket's fault), John Starks, Ekziel, Rice & Horry ( Yes, don't listen to the Jerry's X 2-8 press releases), JR Rider, Eisley, 'Kandi-man ( very early), Theo the Rat, Tyrone the Hill, ET Cassell (briefly for five short days), Rasheed Wallace ( No), Brian Grant ( Well, let us think it over. No, but what about Walt Williams? Well okay) Like I said: It Hurts to look Back!
Don't you think that it would have been awesome if we could have traded Pippen away before the Hawks traded Steve Smith? Just think what could have happened... C-Hakeem/Cato (same thing) PF-Charles Barkley/ Carlos Rogers SF-Jim Jackson/Shandon Anderson SG-Isiah Rider/Cuttino Mobley PG-Steve Francis/Bryce Drew we would be so solid. don't know about our defense, but our offense would be great.
DaneB, Isiah Rider? Boy, am I glad we didn't make that trade. ------------------ Rocket fuel pumps through these veins...
Oh yea, it would have really sucked to have Rider and Francis in the Rockets backcourt! Do you think we'd be anywhere close to 10-24 if we had gotten Rider in the trade? ------------------ Tanking is not acceptable. End of story.
Popeye, the list might have been shorter if you'd just mentioned the players who weren't involved in talks.
My feelings exactly TB. I am not trying to open old wounds,but.... When Pippen was initially "not being shopped" every team this side of Pluto (the planet not the dog!) unleashed their trade hounds and we had a deluge of offers for pippen and combos with Pippen included. A week and a half ( or two weeks) later, all these solid offers from teams, were by the wayside, as pending trades or consummated exchanges between other franchises were taking place. Our opportunity was lost. The real sadness in all this Pippen business, the thing that made me so angry and venomous towards Pippen was : 1. If we had known going into the trade season (August first) that Pippen was truly wanting out, we could have "openingly" shopped his butt. There were some sweet offers out there. We would be in far,far better shape than now in our "rebuilding" era. 2. Pippen had to have known what damage the waiting would do. He knew that by circumventing his relationship with the Rockets, lying, surreptitiously hiding his talks with Phil,buying a house in LA, etc.... and especially waiting until a lot of known offers were turned away by the Rockets because they "did not want to hurt the relationship with Scottie" .... that this would effectively eliminate any value for value exchange. And, the Rockets franchise would ultimately suffer.
Popeye: Not that I'm trying to regurgitate ancient history, but can you blame Pippen for sabotaging the Rockets' trading leverage? If you wanted out of a situation, you would try to make the situation you were going to as appealing as possible. In this case, it means that Pippen didn't want Portland to have to give up any of their marquee talent to get him. What ended up happening is exactly what he (and his agent) wanted: the Blazers scrapped a bunch of overpaid bench players and picked up Pippen's bloated contract instead. Result: Portland now has the 2nd-best record in the league, while the Rockets are looking very lottery-bound. Machiavelli himself would approve.
LOBO: I would disagree with you for the fact that Pip is an agent/pr persons worst nightmare. I think Pip does things that he wants to do and I don't feel there was any strategy to kill the rockets in his blasting Charles at all. Just Pip being Pip, talking a big game off the court, then showing why he is just an above average player getting franchise player dollars.
Ahhhh...but Popeye, early reports had the Rox talking to the Blazers far before any of the mouth that is Pippen, blasted Barkley and were indeed shopping him to other teams. My personal belief is that the Rox blew this one. I believe better deals were to be had. I think that too much was thought of Williams' abilities. It is known that Rudy has coveted Walt for quite some time. I mean even Barkley said that if it boiled down to it, he could of played, and put the comments about him behind him. And that Comments like that shouldn't affect how two veterans go about playing on the floor together. Regardless of what you think of Pippen, you have to believe that with Pippen, Anderson, and Francis still in the lineup, the Rox would be challenging for a playoff spot. If not already implanted solidly into one. C'est la vie.
"If you wanted out of a situation, you would try to make the situation you were going to as appealing as possible." Actually, if I had wanted out of a situation, and was a man of respect and considered a gentlemen/sportsman by my colleagues in the league, I would have had an up-front sincere discussion with my bosses. I would have helped them, help me. Everyone wins. Everyone departs with good feelings from good intentions,like adults should. "In this case, it means that Pippen didn't want Portland to have to give up any of their marquee talent to get him." Your argument that he purposely wanted to help or assist his new team by holding out until the last possible moment, then demanding a trade after some "slight" by a teammate, attributes a virtue he does not possess. He is far too selfish to put even a young, largely untried but talented team like Portland ahead of his own personal agenda. Just for the record, initially he had almost no input in where he eventually would end up, until the final days when his approval was although not strictly necessary, it was requested and given. I will even go so far as to say this, that if it were possible for Pippen to manipulate the team roster as you suggest, his true bearing and the selfish person he is, would have made him attempt to unload some of the talent so he didn't have any real competition on the team. That he would be "star". The center of attention. My Contention (I know it is rehashing old history. But it's either this or we continue to congratulate ourselves on beating the Warriors.) My contention is: he wanted this franchise to fail in some way, so as to show what an "impact" he could have made on the team had they built a team around him and that his departure be so devastating that the franchise took considerable time to recover. That this was caused directly by his manipulation of the timing of his departure. "What ended up happening is exactly what he (and his agent) wanted" As Maxwell Smart used to say: 'Well not exactly, chief'. Pippen wanted to go to LA. Not Portland. All his efforts, until the final few days were aimed at Lakerland. And frankly, the way he handled the whole Houston affair was not lost on the two Jerrys. You think even if they had a substantial yearning for him, they would have broke their backs to get him after the way he treated Hoiuston? So he ended up screwing himself and probably any future with the Lakers,anyway. "the Blazers scrapped a bunch of overpaid bench players and picked up Pippen's bloated contract instead." This was certainly as a result of the timing of the trade. The real prospects which had previously been available,of course were gone by then. We differ, in that you feel this was a classic Machiavellian Strategy orchestrated by Pippen. I see it more as Pippen selfishly marking time at another way station. The True test of his worth will come when the owners must start eating his salary year after ineffectual year, as he plans his next move to cause discord. The key to a Machiavellian Touch is that that actor must be a leader, someone in control of others destiny and Pippen never has been one nor will he ever be given that privilege by teammates. "Portland now has the 2nd-best record in the league, while the Rockets are looking very lottery-bound." Well, I don't quite know what team rosters you were comparing for that argument but .... Portland would have been one of the the best one, two or three placed teams in the league regardless (or in spite of) Pippen's insertion in the line up. The Rockets are in the position of serious "lottery contenders" not because of Pippen's departure, but because of key injuries to the historical stalwards of our team core... Hakeem and Barkley. Remember what little impact Mr. Pippen had with us last year and we made it to the playoffs. This year minus his sorry butt, but with a strong and healthy team, a new backcourt anchored by the exciting Francis, and the other roster additions, well, let's say we were slated for some improvement. Cheers.
