When you say someone is LEFTIST what exactly does this mean? or to the RIGHT? I have a vague idea .. but it think we so bogged down by the monikers that we sometimes just say I don't wanna be a Leftist because of their rep more than their politics. . . and vice versa Rocket River
What hair are you splitting? Are ou trying to find issues supported by the RIGHT which are not truly CONSERVATIVE?
I had a political science teacher at UH who said politics was like a circle at the top left you had communists and at the top right you had facists. Basically they hated each other but were more alike (repressive) then they wanted to admit.
Politically it is supposed to mean- Liberal Politics= Left Conservative Politics= Right Most Americans think they are in the Middle- that means they are smart and balanced voters. Back in the middle 60's two things really defined politics- Viet Nam War and Equal Rights (women, minorities) These were framed by the protest movements, drug use, music, and youth. Tradition was being challenged. I went to 8th grade when they were introducing strict rules for boys hair, the length of girls skirts and you could go to prison for 30-50 yrs for one joint. Out of those years of protest and change came the Left (1967-1974) as defined by those who would soon become the Right (Reagan years- 1980). Those who reacted strongest to the 'Left' soon were defined as the 'Right'. I remember Leave It To Beaver - TV I was playing in a Rock Band in 1969 and if you would have told me then that one day TV commercials would have Rock Music in them I would not have believed it. Back then my views made me a rebel and a protester, today those views would get me elected to Congress. I guess I don't know what left and right mean anymore.
rhester The Left seems totally define by the Right and alot of time . .the Left is basically . .. anything that is not RIGHT Left = ultimate individual Freedom? Right = Ultimate Good for Society? I know it cannot be broken down to something so simple but at this point . . what are the CORE values and ideals? Rocket River
My understanding is they contrast as such- Left- 1. Government responsibility for social problems. 2. World peace/ non aggression agreements 3. Distributions of wealth. 4. Distributions of status. 5. Collectives 6. Protected ideas 7. Globalization Right- 1. Individual responsibility for social problems. 2. Proper defense/ treaties 3. Protections of ownership 4. Cause/ effect 5. Free market 6. Community standards 7. Sovereignty of nations IMHO - they are both very idealistic and historically un-attainable for any length of time.
I think each word can be defined within a structure be it political, religious or whatever... Conservative- means to preserve the tradition Liberal- means to embrace change Ideas like this are not static but dynamic- therefore they tend to pull away- as one idea takes over the middle moves. Think of a tug of war as one side begins to prevail the middle point moves with it.
No judgment on the idea intended. Just historically all those ideals (both sides) have tended to flop. Look at the world headlines-
As a man of the cloth, I know you embrace the notion that some things and some ideas are indeed "static"-- meaning unchanging. We need three labels to encompass the following groups: 1. Liberals (inclined to make changes which move to the Left) 2. Conservative (in favor of preserving the status quo) and 3. ______ (inclined to make changes which move to th right) Of course, all of these are gross approximations. People who consider themselves moderate are caricatured as muddle-headed by the Right and as uncaring by those on the Left.
I was up too late last night, but in my current befuddled state, I think I like this definition best. If one thinks about it (again, I'm not doing that too well), it explains the political dynamic we're seeing today. People are tired of the status quo. They don't like the direction the country is going in. They feel that the current group in power has had their shot, blown it, and it is time to give the others folks a chance to run things. In other words, a majority of the American people are ready to embrace change. Liberalism as interpreted by today's Democratic Party. No, it's not the liberalism I embraced in the '60's which, as rhester pointed out, would have been astonished at what passes for it today. (your "rock music commercials," being an aspect of that... that would have been laughed at back then, followed by anger. As a matter of fact, I experienced a little of that as the medium (rock and folk music, as practiced back then, when it was good) morphed into commercialism, but we digress) Conservatism, as defined by rhester, has lost it's way. Practiced as it is by the Bush Administration, and the Republican Congress, the word has almost no meaning. Conservative- means to preserve the tradition Is it doing that today? Are Bush and the GOP Congress real conservatives? I would argue that, with a few exceptions, they are not. They aren't seen as real conservatives by the conservatives I know. They see incredible growth in government, not an attempt to keep government from growing more than it has already or, heaven forbid, make it smaller, with the Federal budget growing 40% since Bush was "elected," for the first time. They see record budget deficits, not balanced budgets. They see Bush making a modern record for a President by not having vetoed one single bill, much less a spending bill, regardless of how larded with pork and ear-marks it is. They see record trade deficits, with no apparent plan to deal with them. They see irresponsible tax cuts, which would ordinarily be a conservative goal, but not doing a time of war and record budget deficits. They see rampant interference of the Federal government by the Bush Administration into the purvue of the states, not an American conservative policy, but one associated with "Liberals," who feel there is a place for the Federal government in insuring a safety net for those in need, or to insure an environment that our children can enjoy, and that protects the planet. They see an assault on individual liberties, as carried out under the guise of "national security," under the Patriot Act, and that may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. They don't see a Republican Party that is trying to preserve tradition. And if it is not, and is doing the opposite, along with being politically and morally bankrupt, then they believe it's time for a change. Thus, the pendulum making a big swing the other way. You'll see that this Fall. keep d and d civil.
yes and I think those who are termed moderates politically try to avoid extremes so they look for middle ground. maybe it is personality types- those who feel so strongly they have to pull their side of the rope with all their might and those who are holding on in the middle?
In terms of US politics the two parties like to think they are worlds apart. On a global scale they are really more like this: True Left --------------------------------------------------Democrats--Republicans-----------------------------Far Right BTW Economic Left/Right: -4.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.97 Left of the Dalai Lama, More Libertarian than Mandela. Damn.
Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -7.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.13 Does this officially make me a tree hugger?
I would disagree with your teacher. The farthest left one can go is libertarian socialist. The farthest right is fascism but there needs to be an offswing on the right now (somewhere in the middle? - socially liberal/economically conservative) for the newish libertarians. Also - your teacher would have to have the circle overlap because the major Communist governments were essentially fascist.
Your political compass Economic Left/Right: 0.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.87 One grid block right of center and one down in the libertarian direction... I TOLD YOU I WAS A MODERATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
