The Pippen to Portland trade as it stands now looks terrible. We basically got 2 role players(Williams and Cato) in exchange for a perennial all-star( Pippen) . The other 4 players involved either aren't with us anymore or dont contribute. Maybe we should have made the Rice-Horry trade with LA for Pippen when we had the chance???????
I thought the same thing during the game about how we didn't get an even trade after all. But I always get negative in a bad game and positive in a good game. lol. I will say Cato has really good potential and had a good game tonight without fouling out. Pippen for Horry and Rice wasn't enought I thought at the time. Right now it doesn't sound that bad except Rice is in the last year of his contract and Horry - well, been there, done that. At least Horry would have been a legitimate defender which we don't seem to have. Man, we made the Grizzly look good. Right now at this moment, Horry and Rice sound pretty good for this season and it would have made the Lakers supposedly stronger to equal out the talent in Portland. Although after our game against Portland, I agree with Chuck Barkley that they don't look unbeatable. Time will tell about the trade. I just hope this season can also be successful. I am leaning toward finding a trade for Chuck so he can go out with dignity but I don't think he wants it cus he will feel like he is doing what Pippen did. So we have to dig in and show the guts that Stevie and Matt Bullard showed tonight.
M&M: A Rice-Horry trade sounds really good (I'd especially like to have Rob back - he kicks our butts every time he's out there), but we got pretty good pieces for the Portland trade. The Wizard hasn't panned out yet. He showed us his shooting ability in preseason, and since then he's been trying to play Mr. Defense. He needs to reconfirm his role as a shooter. Kelvin will blossom like a pretty petunia (pardon my French). He can block and steal and rebound, and despite what everyone has been saying, as long as he has the ball under the basket he can score. His numbers haven't exactly been bad... Carlos shows glimpses of brilliance. If he can become more consistent in his play, then he will be a solid backup PF / SF on the Rocket's roster for a long time. All three of these players have longer lifespans and smaller paychecks than Scottie - and that needs to be kept in mind when we (inevitably) lose Chuck and Dream. Besides, why in heck would we want to team Scottie up with Phil again?!? They might actually be able to work the triangle if one of their players knew what it was for and was comfortable using it! No point in giving out main adversaries extra points...
I agree, the Pippen deal sucks, sucks, sucks. Cato in the end will be the only guy you can count on long term. If the Rockets have any mind at all they will attempt to trade Walt, and Carlos for all his talent, will never be the player he is capable of being. He is Robert Horry on a much smaller scale. There are also serious questions about Cato's offensive prowess in the post, but I think we will be okay. Think Sprewell, or Ray Allan and Tim Thomas. Think anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we got Cato and rid of Pippen. But come on Paul Allan (Portland GM and Microsoft Big Man) E-SCREWED us. Williams should be traded for players to be named later. I'm growing tired of this guy. It's no longer a slump, it's a Guiness record.
Treeman, "the ball under the basket" - it doesn't just appear there you know. It's what they said about Mutumbo, Olawakandi, and other center with certain unco-ordinated goofyness to their step. I think he will do okay long term, but their is a reason for some pessimism.
At least this year, I don't think we need Cato to score that much. I just want him to stay in the game without fouling out and simultaneously playing monstrous defense. Somewhat like tonight and that first home game in the preseason against Cleveland when he got a triple double. He has potential if he will quitting jumping and fouling so much. He can't block every one of them. He has to know his role for now.
True. Obviously, he needs someone there on the periphery who can feed him that ball, but... His strong point is really defense. I don't think there's any way to deny that he can block, steal, and (less exciting) force the offense away from the basket and make them take shots they don't want to take. This can be a real asset against teams that rely on a strong post game. If only the dude would quit getting two consecutive fouls in the first half... But in that sense he's a lot like Dream, just without the offensive versatility. Long term, though, you're right. Wait and see...
Tree, I don't know about stealing, but he is surely an intimidator. When he's rolling he's fun to watch. I personally think he needs to calm himself a little when he goes in there. Too much heart can be a bad thing. Cuttino will tell ya.
Yuh, something tells me it's that "too much heart" part that keeps getting him into foul trouble. With Hakeem out, Cato's more important than ever. Jeez, we had to trade him in and out with the Wizard in OT tonight. That will not do. He needs to learn to stay out of foul trouble for at least the next month (it's a good career move for him anyway). I'm confident he'll learn that, though. Of all the current players, he one of the new ones that I'm least worried about... PS, I like Cat. I think he's the most exciting element on this team, and he might very well be THE future of this team, all the Stevie-talk notwithstanding...
I personally think the Pippen deal was a good trade. Pippen may have been (and maybe currently is) a all-0star caliber player getting a francise type paycheck. Pippen still is not a franchise player, he is good but he can't be the man. Cato will be a great defensive center, with a big body, who likes to hit the boards. Rogers can be good player, especially if he can become a big SF. I don't know if he can become a good PF. Walt is a good shooter, at times. Not a big fan of his. This is one of the deals where short term it may not be good, but it may have been our best opportunity to fix a mistake (giving Pip a ton of money for a long time).
M&M, I think Carlos Rogers just fell off his couch. I admit he's not a world beater, but to say he hasn't contributed is a bit harsh. I will be first to stand here and say Walt Williams has been a huge disappointment, but Cato is a little more than a role player. He is a piece of the future and anyone who can't see that after the last two games is watching different games then I am. Now, consider two things. One, we had to trade Pippen. That automatically hinders your bargaining power. Secondly, Pippen is 33. He might play two or three more years of quality basketball. Cato on the other hand has at least ten if he stays healthy. ------------------ Rockets When? Rockets When?
Barzilla is spot on - the Pippen trade wasn't a "fair trade" because the Rockets were forced (by Pippen) to trade him. We just had to settle for what we could get - there's no "huge mistake" involved, it was just a matter of unloading a problem. The big advantage we got out of the deal was unloading Pippen's contract, which grew to something like $17-18 Million in the final 2 years - and would severely restrict our ability to sign a free agent in the future due to salary cap restraints.
Barzilla, Spree was out there. We could of had them but the Rockets reacted too hastily. Tell me this lineup would not be better night in night out. Hakeem Sir Charles Anderson Sprewell Francis
Hate to admit it but Pippen is/was right. We had the chance to trade Dream, but we decided we didn't REALLY want to change that much. Imagine if we still had Pippen, got Anderson, and Francis with the number 5 and 12 picks with Doug Christie and Kevin Willis. Now, Dream is out a month and we are stuck out. I don't care about him anymore. He is standing in the way of our "new" team and future. Take the high road or should I say high post Dream and get out of the way. I would much rather lose with Cato, Rogers and Thomas playing a ton of minutes than lose with and old Dream trying to relive the glory days. If you are not part of the future then you are part of the past.
Caucasion, Was Spree really out there or is that just a rumor. Anyhow, I don't really want Spree here anyway. Anyone who continually makes the comments he makes and continues to blame the Warriors for the crime he committed shows he has no place in the NBA. This guys is lucky he isn't in jail and he demands to start and not only start but play two guard? Want fries with that? I admit Spree is a great talent, but there is a ton of baggage that goes along with that. Besides, he's a virtual black hole when you pass the ball to him. ------------------ Rockets When? Rockets When?
Cato is going to be our starting center for years.He is a shot blocking,rebounding defensive force.He has improved his FT shooting(everyone had a tough game last night from the stripe)His moves down on the blocks have already shown some improvement.If the Rockets staff can turn Othella into a good offensive player,just think what will eventually happen with Cato's athleticism.Make no mistake about it either,he has the hunger and drive just like O.He runs the court like a deer and has a certain chemistry with Stevie. Carlos rebounds,cuts to the hoop well,and is not above facing his man up(even at his size).He's another hungry player who will benefit from working with the staff.Sometimes Rogers has problems finishing because his of a lack of body control.He just needs to get stronger,the guy has mad hops. We have our starting center for years and another talented big guy.All we gave away was an overpriced punk at the end of his career who was a salary cap albatross.Even IF the Blazers win the title this year the deal was a great one.
Pippen is averaging about the same points/reb/assists that he was averaging here. This isnt Garnett we are talking about. Plus, the guy makes 14 million, thats alot for a guy who avgs. 15 points and gives up 20. Cato is hurt, i think he will be a very good player. Rogers is very athletic, can rebound, but just forces things on offense. Walt,man, didn't he used to be the wizard ? What happened to him ? He's streaky i guess, but he seems to be a team player. ------------------ "Don't they get cable in Canada ?" Keith olbermann, after watching hakeem block terry catledge's shot 5 times.
Yeah, I must admit Pippen had us over a barrel by all but forcing a trade. All I know is last year we had a winning record with Pippen, Harrington, Price and Dickerson and we have a losing one without them.
Rocketfreak, do you think the Bulls would have traded MJ if stayed around long enough to begin losing a few steps? NO. He's more than someone who eats at their cap, he's a superstar with superstar recognition, and sells tickets for them accordingly. This year and the next are transistion years for the Rocks. We are allowing Hakeem and Chuck to retire with grace, and thinking stupidly that we can still beat a few teams in the league with them as two of our superstars. I would have loved to have Jonaton Bender, and William Avery or Adrian Griffin, but I am a firm believer in respect for one's elders. You can't put a price on what Hakeem has done sports wise for this city. Barzilla, I don't like Spree's punk mentality either, but if we wanted to win this year, we shouldn't have chosen a trade for scraps. We should have taken our time, more than a week or two more, and made the best decision. The guy may be trash, but he'd be fun to watch with Francis. Instead we have Williams in our starting line-up. Carlos who has talent, but is like watching Goofy sometimes playing basketball. He's real active but then he gets to the hoop and says, "Ohh Garsh". I believe that he can improve, but I'm of the opinion this guy will never be a starter, and will never improve more than 3 ppg for the rest of his career. This is because for the most part Carlos will never come out from behind other players who play up to their talent level. Cato is a project in many aspects as well, he's still got a lot of problems, but more than anybody else, he will help this ball club long term. I'm more than glad to have him.
Kudos to those who look beyond the Rox logo, and realize that it was a horrible, aweful deal. I too am under the influence that the Rox didn't take their time with the Pippen fiasco. The way to look at it is: Even with for all his so called shortcomings on the court, with a lesser point guard, a lesser talent at shooting guard, a Rox team with Pippen wasn't 4-11, barely beating the scrums of the league who are missing players. Something irks me about the deal. I remember how Rudy was in love with Walt Williams from previous years. I think that maybe He wanted Williams so bad that any other deal was insignificant (Deals for Spree-I did hear, and with the Heat for Mash and Veshon). I think that he believed W-squared was going to be the outside threat to prove that his system was still capable of getting wins. Too bad that Rudy didn't look at the scouting report on Williams. He'd of seen that Williams is a lifetime 42 percent shooter and around 35 percent from the arc. And for as hated as Pippen was for not hitting shots, it was one bad year as compared to Williams career averages. Right now as it stands the only servicable player the Rox got from the deal is Cato. And before Hakeem went down, Cato's minutes were decreasing fast. So far the book on Cato is correct. All shot blocking nothing else. Williams is a corpse on the court, and Rogers can't get any minutes, much like the jist of his career.
