Maybe maybe no. At any rate, check out this quote: If the old man's so tired of doing everything for his team, maybe he should just retire? I think it kind of shows the weariness and desperation of knowing that he's never going to win a title without Jordan. The article
He was saying the exact same sorta s### during his (mercifully-brief) Rockets tenure: basically, he has to do everything. Maybe he can give back some of that $18,000,000 salary and then get away with doing less on the floor...?
Egotistical cancer? I didn't know this topic was about Jordan! Pippen never won anything without Jordan? He did better in '94 with the Bulls than Jordan did pre-Pippen. It's not like Pippen had a great team around him, either. When Jordan left he was replaced by CBA journeyman Pete Myers. You know how many regular season games the Bulls dropped without the "best player ever?" Two. Wow, I care. In that same season, Pippen became the second player in history (Dave Cowens was the other) to lead his team in ALL FIVE categories: points, assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks. Pippen was as important or more important to those teams than Jordan was. And since we're talking about egotistical cancers, do you know why Pippen "selfishly" wouldn't stay with the Bulls in '98? Do you know the real reason he ended up being labeled a "quitter?" Pippen's salary up to that point was $3 million a year. Jordan's was $36 million. Pippen wanted a bigger contract. Jordan refused to take a pay cut. That was that. That's why Pippen was so sensitive about getting the max when he was with the Rockets: he had been robbed of a reasonable salary for his entire career by Jordan. Of course, Jordan called him a quitter. Never mind that Jordan had walked out on the team for two years. Never mind that Jordan was the reason he wanted to leave. Jordan was the reason for the lockout! After the Bulls won their last title, the Bulls announced that they had made virtually no profits from the season. They were almost in the red. They had to pay Jordan that much money so he wouldn't leave and sign with someone who would. What team loyalty! And Pippen is supposed to be the quitter? Pippen is supposed to be the egotistical one? Pippen is supposed to be the selfish one?
Please don't tell me you just tried to compare Scottie Pippen with Michael Jordan? That's just wrong. How many titles did Pippen win without Michael? And you conveniently failed to mention the Bulls record the year when Jordan came back. 72-10. Make no mistake about it. Jordan was the reason the Bulls were so good. And yes, Scottie definitely helped. I'm sorry but I have no recollection of a lot of things you mentioned. Jordan called Pippen a quitter? Jordan was the reason for the lockout? Jordan was robbed of a reasonable salary his entire career because of Jordan? Robbed? I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions, doing a lot of exagarating, and/or wording things very carefully to prove your own point. The facts are. Pippen blames teammates by name...something Jordan would never do. Pippen makes quotes like the one that started this thread where he whines and tries to make himself look better...definitely something Jordan NEVER would do and never would need to do. And as far as comparing the character of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Come on, be real.
As I said already, how many did Jordan win without Pippen? Jordan has never even won one playoff series without Pippen. Pippen has won playoff series without Jordan, with the Bulls and Blazers. You conveniently forgot to mention that Jordan came back in '95 with 17 games left in the regular season and utterly failed in the playoffs without a great rebounding power forward. The 72-10 record was a direct result of the acquisition of Rodman. Your quote fails to prove that Jordan was any more important than Pippen or Rodman. You obviously didn't read my post. If you were paying attention when the lockout happened, you would remember that the Bulls' complaint that they made zero profit from a championship year because of exorbitant salaries (a.k.a. Jordan's $36 million in one year) was what started the lockout. Just because you don't remember something doesn't mean it isn't true. Look it up if it makes you feel better. Yes. Jordan was making twelve times the salary of Pippen. Pippen asked for a reasonable deal. Since the Bulls were almost in the red financially, they needed Jordan to take a paycut to keep Pippen. Nope, Jordan needed all $36 million. Remember how Jordan had said he would only stay if Pippen and Jackson stayed? When Pippen left because Jordan wouldn't take a paycut, Jordan blamed Pippen for "letting down the team" (he called him a quitter). You're telling me Jordan was worth twelve times what Pippen was? Pippen had been sucking that up since '87. He wasn't obligated to do it any more. You're kidding, obviously. Jordan never made quotes to make himself look better? Jordan never blames teammates by name? There are far too many instances of both those things for just one post, so I'll just settle for just one quote where he does both. This is from a CNNSI article by Jennifer Cooper on Monday, April 1st: Following the 110-103 heartbreaker (against Dallas), Jordan blamed Collins for not using him at point guard as much as he should have and said Washington's playoff fate is in the coach's hands. “[Collins is] going to have to earn his coaching ring to try to find my minutes and how to minimize my minutes and keep me in the focus of what's happening with this team,” Jordan said. What makes this so amusing is that Collins coached Jordan with the Bulls, back in the day. Collins tried to make him a complete player by playing him at PG. Jordan didn't like it; he wanted to shoot, so he had Collins fired. Now, because Jordan knew Collins really was a good coach, he hired him to coach the Wizards. And now he's complaining because Collins DIDN'T play him at point?! He led the team this season with 1324 FG attempts. Hamilton was second with 984, Whitney was third with 595. He also shot a lower percentage than both of them. Jordon was also second in the Dallas game in FG attempts (4-14) in just 28 minutes! Does this sound like a man who wants to play point? No. Jordan was just a really good gunner who doesn't want to take responsibility for anything. Jordan talked all the time before the season about how he was bringing the playoffs back to Washington. When he failed, he blamed Collins. By name. If you need another example, see above where Jordan calls Pippen a quitter. By name. I hope you're kidding. To think some people have really been brainwashed this much scares me. DCkid, please respond to this. I'd love to see you try.
Oh, okay. Since Pippen wasn't hurt and Jordan never got a chance to prove he could win a series without Scottie, Pippen MUST have been the better player! That makes sense. Forget it. There's not even any reason to keep this thread going on for much longer. You obviously have a grudge against Michael Jordan, and making proposterous claims that Pippen is a better player. This isn't even worth arguing about. But I am still dying to see your list of AT LEAST twelve players better than Michael. Please, enlighten us.
Oh my god. I just heard someone argue the case for Pippen against Jordan. If nothing else, check out this frickin' series. Jordan takes a team with almost no talent to a playoff contender (would have made it, had he been healthy), while the younger Scottie looks like the 3rd or 4th man on a decent team.
Since Pippen wasn't hurt? What exactly do you mean by that? Jordan had three years before Pippen arrived to win a playoff series. Pippen got just one when Jordan left the first time, and he DID manage to win a playoff series. Hmmm... But most important, you have already conceded the original point by giving no response to the facts. You have TRIED to refute ONE point I made in my post, and it is a very weak refutation... you are essentially saying that "it's not fair that Jordan was injured and Pippen wasn't". Please. See above. (He had three chances) By not responding (since you obviously can't), let me list all the points that you are conceding: Jordan DID denounce his coach and teammates by name. Jordan DID say things to make himself look better. There is NO WAY to prove that Jordan is better than Pippen or Rodman. Jordan WAS the reason for the lockout. Jordan WAS selfish for keeping all of Pippen's money. I just wanted to point out that I HAVE ALREADY WON THE ORIGINAL ARGUMENT. YOU HAVE NOT REFUTED MY POINTS. However, if you wish to argue about who the best player is, we can do that too. You obviously began watching the NBA in the 80's, and have no idea that basketball even existed before Magic and Bird. You want 12 players? Here they are: Wilt Chamberlain Bill Russell Jerry West Oscar Robertson Eligin Baylor Larry Bird Magic Johnson Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Hakeem Olajuwon Julius Erving Rick Barry Elvin Hayes Walt Frazier Dave Cowens ... and SCOTTIE PIPPEN Oh, sorry, I meant to put 12, but those 15 just popped out so fast that I couldn't stop myself. My fingers actually skidded. All right, let's go. I'll argue that Chamberlain was the best ever. I'm going to enjoy this.
There is no reason to argue with somebody who thinks Rodman might be better than Jordan. I'm not to going to lower myself to that level. It would be a waste of my time. If I thought you were a rational person or if I didn't think you were just joking, I would be happy to argue with you.
ooooh... it's that fabulous championiship logic! By that standard, you can't prove that Charles Barkley is better than Matt Bullard. in fact, he's not as good. Bullard won with the Rockets, while Barkley did not. Watch a fricking game. Or look aat a fricking stat sheet.
You're right. Jordan IS better than Rodman. I'll give you that. Very good. You refuted HALF of one of my points. Now refute my other points! I mean, seriously, you have not yet given me ONE hard fact that I have not been able to refute. I'm not rational? Fine. Refute my points. It should be easy to do against someone who isn't rational. Saying that you don't want to "sink to (my) level" or "waste your time" is a petty response, trying to belittle me, WITHOUT GIVING ANY ARGUMENTS. I have said some fairly insulting things to you. I am willing to accept YOUR petty insults if it makes you feel better, but ONLY if you stay on topic and actually respond to the ENTIRE post. Otherwise, don't waste MY time. I grow tired of telling you ARGUE, not INSULT.
3 reason why I shouldn't waste my time arguing with you. 1.) Obviously there was a way...and I didn't even have to give any arguments. You said there was NO WAY. From this I can deduce three things: you don't actually think before you type, you are a liar, or you just like starting s**t. From that one post you have completely forfeited all credibility. And it only took you roughly 30 posts. Damn, you're really incompetent. 2.) This implies you've been watching basketball for a lot longer with me. Your user profile says you were born in 1984. Once again, you are a liar one way or another. And don't worry, there's no reason to go rush and change your user profile. 3.) Your signature: <b>Feel free to express your own WRONG opinion!</b> I don't think I need to comment! What more can I prove. You have no credibility, you are a liar, and you like to be obnoxious. Goodnight.
First, you are STILL avoiding the original posts. This is sad indeed. However, your points should be responded to, so I will do what you have NOT done: I said there was no way to PROVE (key word: Prove) that Jordan is better. You did not prove anything. You said "There is no reason to argue with somebody who thinks Rodman might be better than Jordan." That's not even an opinion on the issue! That's an opinion of me! See above. I did not lie. If I'm a liar for saying that it's impossible to prove that Jordan is better than Rodman, do it. That, or give me a clearly stated opinion, none of this "you're too stupid to argue with" stuff. For heaven's sake, I AGREE with you on the Rodman thing! YOU began arguing. You said "Please don't tell me you just tried to compare Scottie Pippen with Michael Jordan? That's just wrong..." etc. All I did in the first place was respond to someone's post that Pippen was an "egotistical cancer." Telling me that I am "just wrong" is fine, IF YOU BACK IT UP. YOU DIDN'T. I would not have gone off if you had responded intelligently to my ENTIRE POST from the beginning, that's why it took me "30 posts." Note that you say, with your very own post, that "This IMPLIES..." Excuse me, but I'm really not one bit interested in what you THINK I implied. I never claimed to be 70 years old. I have bought as much tape of the old game as I could, read descriptions, testaments from other players and coaches, looked at stats, etc. What I WAS saying is that you probably don't know who many of those guys are. You're right... there IS no reason to rush and change my user profile, because I'm not going to make any stupid claim that I mistyped it. Try looking at my user profile in a week. It'll still say 1984. It's called a joke. You know, "Ha, ha, that was funny." A heck of a lot of signatures on this are supposed to be funny. I'm sorry it offends you. Don't look at it. You have proved nothing (besides maybe that YOU have no credibility). I look forward to reading your responses to my last, oh, 3 or 4 posts or so, because right now, we BOTH look ridiculous. A guy can hope. Goodnight to you as well. Dream sweet dreams of actually meeting my arguments straight on, instead of running in circles around the facts and insulting me, as well as reading numerous things into my posts that I never said.
Who's the new troll? IMHO, Pippen's a sorry ass whiney lil biatch who could never shoot straight. He's one ugly lookin mofo, too.
