What are the thoughts on running that play that Francis/ Bullard used to run where Bull set a high (and intimidating) pick which Francis dribbled around and had the option of kicking it back out for the long jumper? I know that Bull is gone - but I was thinking that Rice might be the ideal man to run that play with - problem is, from my memory of watching his play, I don't recall seeing him set too many picks. Normally the pick would be for him - of course this is probably due more to his status as primary scorer in the past. Does Rice have what it takes to run this play? What variants would you put in?
I dont know if this is the same play...but there was a similar pick and roll play with Francis and Walt Williams. If you remember the big comeback in NYC last year, the Rockets ran that play each and every time down the court for the entire third quarter, with either an open Francis or an open Walt...or, when the defense rotated, swinging the ball to an open Mobley. The exhalted Knicks defense couldn't do a thing about it. I would love to see that play run with Rice. Assuming that we will still see mostly man to man defenses, I would also love to see much more motion running along the baselines with both Mobley and Rice coming off picks. Perhaps even with the new defense not standing in the lane too long urle, this will creat more movement and ocnfusion on the defenses part and make it even better. Crispee/heypartner - you need to draw up some new offseason plays with Rice involved.
This play is called 24-High. That numbering usually is meant to refer to a play for a 2 and 4, while the "High" refers to the entry point. This play originated after we lost Barkley and Hakeem and Francis was on his way to "facing" the whole league to win the Player of the Month honors in January as a rookie. Note: the POM by a rookie happens roughly only once a year. The reason Rudy started running this was twofold: since TMass was down as well and K9 wasn't not starting yet, Bullard was forced into action as a PF. Rudy decided to run the opposing PFs all over the place. But the main reason for 24-high was to get Francis a high pick since he was being smothered high traps, due to having an awesome January. The main thing about a pick n roll is that you want to force a major mismatch should the defenders switch. For that reason, using a SF is not the classic pick-n-roll. When Bullard was doing it, he was actually playing PF. Mobley runs this as often as Francis does, now. They get their picks from Mo', K9 and Collier. Mobley and Collier won the first Indiana game running 24-high 6 times in a row for a 11-2 spurt in the final 4:30 (or close to that). I suspect that Griffin will be groomed for this. But I do not think Rice will run it much, except while playing PF. He will depend on how the defensive switch would play out. If the switch doesn't create a major mismatch (for either offensive players), you kinda ruin the main aspect of a pick-n-roll. For instance, switching McGrady onto Francis is not a terrible mismatch. A healthy Hill. Miles, Rose, Finley, Marion...etc. The play is much more effective when a PF or C is providing the pick.
JayZ, I believe the Knick game was with a 3-guard set, and Johnson guarding Walt. This is one of the reasons why the small set with Rice as a PF with 3-guards is powerful. We just run the pnr with Rice being guarded by a PF down the opponents throat, until they go small with us, out of necessity to take away the mismatch on the switch.
24 High is why it is important Collier gets his shot back. I think KT will run this one often too. I can see him faking and zooming to the middle off this. Rocket River
That is why I say we use this play with Francis and Griffin at the PF postion. I don't think Griffin would pass up a chance to take the open shot if given the opportunity.
btw: who thinks Mobley runs 24-high better than Francis. Who recalls how they each dealt with smothering traps that would largely ignore the picker?
Here's the offense I'd like to see the Rockets run with some minor variations. 'The Fist' Mo on the high post, post up Rice (by interchanging the 2 & 3 positions) or ISO Mobley on the wing from about 12ft, and then if that doesn't work, a Mo/Francis pick & roll, or pick & fade. I'd also take the 3 & 5 positions and pull them out from inside to clear up some space, if Collier and Rice are in. This would be nice, because we all know that Rudy prefers offenses that don't have alot of embelishment, and this set would get the scorers the ball in what I perceve to be their best position rather quickly, yet have more than one option, which I feel was sometimes a hinderance last year. I think a big key for Mo-T is to put more effort into setting good, quality picks. He seems most of the time to half-heartedly go throught the motions, despite the fact that his girth and offensive flexability would make him an ideal pick-and-roll PF. My favorite all-time offense for the Rockets was that 'mid-range' post-up that Clyde used to do, with the quick Chuckie Brown cut. That was awesome, but unfortunately you need tall, strong guards who can put the ball on the floor or pass to pull that one off.
Excellent thread. So much better than the usual dribble. Personally, I think Collier is our best PnR big guy.
Crispee, I like Mobley coming off the high 24 more than Francis because he is more agressive forcing the other team to react faster.
Thanks for the detail of the play (name and all) - I was thinking that Rice would be in at PF if this play was run, with maybe Mo or Griffin at center and Mooch/ Cat/ Stevie out there. Does Rice have what it takes to set a strong pick and then roll? I know it's not too hard, but then again there are some things that some players jsut aren't good at... Would love to see Mo getting some action with this one too!
Mobley turns the corner quicker on the drive, but his outside shot is marginally worse than Steve's. Is this play run more for Cat? It seems that when his number is called it is almost always 24-high or an iso. Also, does Cat get more FT attempts from iso or the high? (guesses or estimations welcome!)
Questions, questions, questions... What this really makes me wonder is, just how will Rice get his shots? If it isn't from setting high picks at the 3pt, I sure as hell hope it won't be from sitting on the weak side hoping for the dish. I just don't know this guy's game- can he shoot on the move, after double picks, like R. Miller? Can Rudy just plug him into the plays that he had drawn for the Wiz? Man, we were just deadly when Walt hit his mid-range shots. I remember games where Walt would come through a double pick for the shot at the elbow, and on a good night he would nail like three possessions in a row. How did he do all his scoring in his prime back at Charlotte? Did he initiate the offense in the post, or take passes off of picks, or actually isolate out on the wing?
Rice, Reggie, and Larry have the 3 quickest releases I've ever seen "live." There are some new kids on the block now, but these three proved they could get it off against the toughest defenses. Rice can damn sure nail the catch and shoot from anywhere, any angle. Phil and Sprewell just didn't believe, I guess. Rice won't just be camped out like Steve Kerr watching Jordan drive. Rice (and I hope Mobley as well) will run counter plays to strongside defensive overplays of Francis. Word is that he'll also get low posts like Shareef does. btw: I'm not saying Rice won't be a picker, just that there is a reason that the classic pnr does not have a SF and guard.
Rice used to have a sweet Magic Johnson-style spin move that he would pull on the break or off of the wing. Other than that it was back to the basket like Alan Houston, or getting the ball at the wing and firing away or one dribble and a pull up.
Crispee, Agree with you about Rice quick release, i can remember alot of 1 dribble jumpers/3s and step back threes in Miami and Charlotte which you never saw in LA and NY, his size seems to be a big factor that allows him to shoot over people without the defender making him change his shooting form. Me thinks that is a mental decision not to make those moves (which are his best) cause the coach has told him so, terrible when such a good shooter, who creates his own shot very well (completely opposite to someone like Bull or Kerr) is told to just find the gaps and knock the shot down when Kobe, Shaq, Camby, Spree or Houston are stopped or doubled. In short Phil and Gumby took away his licence to create his own shot, HP do you think Rudy will give it back to him ????? Now back to the pick n roll, Mobes definitely seems to handle the double initially, but needs to make slightly better decision once he busts through it. I think now that Steve has seen it more he will adjust and destroy it. It seems to be a world-wide trend US/Europe and Australia that defense automatically double the dribbler, what has happened here in Australia (have also seen in US and Europe a bit) is that the screener takes a step or two to set the screener, the double starts to go and really even before they have set the screen or the dribbler has use it, they just split the seen and roll to the basket (hope that makes sense). What can then happen is the dribbler hits the roller or if the dribbler busts the double they can then again hit the roller or if help defense comes over the weakside offensive player gets a lay-up fromt he dribbler. The other consequence of doubling the dribbler is greater enhancement for offensive rebounding as the defense is having to adjust, help and rotate. HP, question for you (or anyone), if you are coaching against Collier and Cat and they have just scored on 4 pick n rolls in a row would you think about just zoning up?????, a pick n roll can be real tough to run against a zone????????? Smeg WOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO some game discussion PS HP, Did you ever get the chance to watch that Rockets v Mavs game again the one where the Mavs played a 3-2 trapping half-crt zone for the whole second half???
I think if a team zones up against the Rockets they're in deep doo-doo this year; there's just too many good shooters! If Mobley/ Collier score on 4 p'n'rs in a row and the other team zones up then more than likely Collier/ Mo/ Rice (or whoever is in) finds themselves open for a jumper off Francis/ Mobley penetration. Who cares about our defense, the offense is going to be great to watch
Rice has that "high" release (like Rasheed Wallace) which makes it soo tough to disturb his shot at all; plus he leans back a little on his shot which gives him the separation to make it! He used to get to the hole in Charlotte, but I've not seem him play much since those days, so couldn't say if it's still in his game, but he used to drive and just jump in the lane and nail a short jumper.
I have been out of town for a while so I guess I missed something. What is heypartner doing using his old handle. I thought he lost the bet and had to change. Sorry if this is old news. But, what's up with that??
OT, <A HREF="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21275">Read this thread</A> Mango
