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Petraeus: The Surge is Working, Premature Pull-Out Would Be Devastating

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by El_Conquistador, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Democrats, is it time to listen to the commanders on the ground? Time to re-think your stance? Here is what General Petraeus has to say:

    Petraeus Talks of Troop Withdrawal

    WASHINGTON (AP) - Gen. David Petraeus told Congress on Monday he envisions the withdrawal of roughly 30,000 U.S. combat troops from Iraq by next summer.
    In long-awaited testimony, the commanding general of the war said last winter's buildup in U.S. troops had met its military objectives "in large measure."

    As a result, he told a congressional hearing and a nationwide television audience, "I believe that we will be able to reduce our forces to the pre-surge level ... by next summer without jeopardizing the security gains we have fought so hard to achieve."

    Testifying in a military uniform bearing four general's stars and a chestful of medals, Petraeus said he had already provided his views to the military chain of command.

    Rebutting charges that he was merely doing the White House's bidding, he said firmly, "I wrote this testimony myself. It has not been cleared by nor shared with anyone in the Pentagon, the White House or the Congress."

    Petraeus said that a unit of about 2,000 Marines will depart Iraq later this month, beginning a drawdown that would be followed in mid- December with the departure of an Army brigade numbering 3,500 to 4,000 soldiers.

    After that, another four brigades would be withdrawn by July 2008, he said. That would leave the United States with about 130,000 troops in Iraq, roughly the number last winter when President Bush decided to dispatch additional forces.

    Petraeus said a decision about further reductions would be made next March.

    Using charts and graphs to illustrate his points, Petraeus conceded that the military gains have been uneven in the months since Bush ordered the buildup last winter.

    But he also said that there has been an overall decline in violence and said, "the level of security incidents has declined in eight of the past 12 weeks, with the level of incidents in the past two weeks the lowest since June of 2006."

    Petraeus also said the Iraqi military is slowly gaining competence and gradually "taking on more responsibility for their security."

    He cited Anbar province as an example of Iraqis turning against terrorists, adding, "we are seeing similar actions in other locations as well."

    Petraeus' testimony came at a pivotal moment in the war, with the Democratic-controlled Congress pressing for troop withdrawals and the Bush administration hoping to prevent wholesale Republican defections.

    Bush and his political allies have worked forcefully in recent weeks to shore up Republican support. One organization with ties to the administration has spent millions on television advertisements, and Bush traveled to Anbar province last week to highlight improved security in the vast western stretches of Iraq.

    Bush also called Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki in the hours before Petraeus spoke, and is expected to deliver a nationwide address on the war in the next few days.

    Despite the administration's efforts, fresh polls reflected significant public opposition to the war. A USA Today-Gallup poll taken in the past few days found that 60 percent of those surveyed favor setting a timetable for removing troops. Only 35 percent favor keeping the troops in Iraq until the situation improves.

    Petraeus was one of two witnesses—Ambassador Ryan Crocker was the other—at a nationally televised hearing punctuated by numerous protests by anti-war demonstrators in the audience.

    Over and over, Rep. Ike Skelton, the Missouri Democrat presiding, ordered police to remove the demonstrators. "This is intolerable," he said at one point.

    Skelton and fellow lawmakers spoke first, as is customary in Congress, and Petraeus listened to more than 45 minutes of political rhetoric. His testimony was delayed another 10 minutes by a malfunctioning microphone, but when he began to speak, the lawmakers arrayed on the dias across from him listened intently.
     
  2. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    its not a good time to "pull out" and it wont be for a while. The problem is that people are so frustrated with the mistakes of the past few years that they are jaded and wont accept the possibility that things can get better.
     
  3. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Can you blame them? Who were the people that put politics infront of the success of the Iraq operation? I fully expect there will be a Demoratic president (Clinton or Obama) by 2009, Bush has damaged the Republican party for years to come.
     
  4. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    This testimony really puts the liberals in a bind. Some of the real extremists, like dailykos followers, are launching into full-scale attack mode against Petraeus. Are they saying they know more than the General on the ground? Wow, talk about removing any cred that they may have once had... First it was, "wait for Petraeus, wait for Petraeus, wait for Petraeus", then when they got the answer they didn't want to hear, it has become, "Patraeus is out of touch, bring the troops home now." Zero cred. Zero.

    The naivete of bringing the troops home now is so ridiculous. It's people speaking with emotion and ignorance, not practical, constructive, forward-thinking thought.
     
  5. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    no you cant blame them, but should being overly skeptical on past mistakes prevent any potential future gains?

    polititicians put politics in front of success...rep and dem alike. And its politicians that will ensure failure by a premature pullout

    :D premature pullout...makes me giggle
     
  6. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    It would be ridiculous to not stay the course. Go Troops! Go USA!
     
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    This seems like a good compromise. A lot of troops leaving next summer.

    I read an op-ed yesterday that made a good point- America will be judged more by how it leaves Iraq than how it got into Iraq. The reasons we got in wont matter much if we leave Iraq a stable country, or conversely, if we leave behind a horrible civil war.
     
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Amazing how many people don't remember Vietnam, or simply aren't old enough to know what happened. What we are watching today is a dog and pony show. From both sides. Six months from now, we'll get another one. Nothing fundamental will have changed, except the number of dead and maimed. More people were killed and wounded while Nixon "got out of Vietnam," then during the entire conflict prior to taking office. Bush is stringing this out until he can leave the mess to someone else. My only hope is that he doesn't start another war before he goes. I have almost no hope for Iraq, and am very worried about Afghanistan. Petraeus, in my opinion, thinks he's being a good soldier. I hope he can sleep well at night.





    D&D. Impeach Nixon and Cheney.
     
  9. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Every time I hear that name...Petraeus....this is the picture in my mind:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. AkeemTheDreem86

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    I hate premature pull-outs.
     
  11. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    It was Bush who told us that the surge was going to give time for the politicians to compromise and if this hadn't occurred in September we would re-evaluate. He and his wonks are the ones that "sold us" on this deadline, and now that his 'new way forward' plan hasn't worked, he wants to blame people who are pointing this out and are trying to hold him to his own word.

    He failed for four years, then asked for one more chance to 'prove it' and failed again. Now you guys want to say that we are being unfair by trying to hold him at his word and not push his repeated ineptitude under the rug as we did so many times before?

    I don’t know whether to be pissed off at the gall of such arrogance or whether I simply laugh in the face of the people trying to sell that argument for its obvious absurdity.
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

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    Depends on who's asking people to trust them. Bush doesn't have enough credibility to say "trust me, we're right this time" based on all his collective previous failures. We'll see whether Petraeus does or not.
     
  13. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    You obviously didn't read General Petraeus' speech. Tough to argue with the guys on the ground... Well, I take that back. It's easy to argue, just not with any type of credibility.
     
  14. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Colin Powell did too .. . . I guess he got tired of falling on the sword

    Seriously.. . if Petraeus did not say what they wanted . . would he have made it back to Iraq???
    Would he have been booted out . . .. shamed somehow?

    Rocket River
     
  15. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    It is not a miliary issue. It is an Iraqi political issue. You can't see the forest for the trees, apparently.
     
  16. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    youre right, bushs credibility is very high but it appears that they may actually have a general and strategy that more sound. Just an opinion, and i could be wrong, but i think the initial strategy had more political influence than now. But we should at least give the current general a fair chance and not crap on him automatically just because bush is the president.


    but how can you say he failed again, when there does appear to be some progress...at least militarily? Especially after a few months...there isnt a quick fix. it will take time. Of course the US cant force iraqi political efforts directly but only indirectly via security.


    a glass half full guy eh? ;)
     
  17. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    No, someone old enough to have voted against Nixon.




    D&D. Impeach Bush and Cheney.
     
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    This really is a good point, but in a year if the situation is unchanged or only marginally better do we stay?
     
  19. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    This is a really good question.
     
  20. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    that requires everyone's favorite answer...it depends
     

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