Are any of you members of an organized religion, yet you disagree with certain aspects of the teachings, dogma, code, etc of that particular religion? How do you cope with it, how do you reason it out with yourself? Has it ever driven you away from a religion, etc? If so, what part? I was just curious if anyone has had an experience like this before. After talking with my Mom last week when she told me she used to be a Baptist, yet left that denomination for Presbyterianism after being consistently told by her Baptist peers that her husband would go to hell if he did not attend their church, etc (My dad is a good, honest man of personal faith, not organized).
My wife is a "non-practicing Catholic," for want of a better description. I think she had problems with a whole host of Catholic ideologies, or whatever you'd call them. She goes to services once or twice a year, to the consternation of her uncle, who's a preist, and that's about it. I don't have any conflicts, being agnostic, but it's a good topic. I think you'll get some response. Keep D&D Civil!!
My parents raised us to select our own religion. I've learned some about religions through religious meetings (had a experience as your mother during this search) and discussing other's beliefs. I've read some, but plan to read much more. The key, IMHO, is to put the spirituality aspect first, above all else. Learn about other's beliefs then follow your heart. If you wish, find the religion that best matches your beliefs. And if you wish, you can follow only the tenets that are consistent with your personal beliefs. I would never allow some one to tell me the way it is.
That's pretty cool. If I had a kid I would want to teach it about all the great religions starting at a very early age, using books for children from different religions, etc. Not from an patronizing attitude, but one of true respect and understanding. I think it's just as important as anything else to teach children. But I think it would be hard to let them actually "choose". I don't know. I would still want to stress certain truths. But I figure as long as the ethics of reciprocity is truly understood, they will be ok. Scary.
i'm a semi-practicing seventh-day adventist. i agree with pretty much everything the SDA church stands for...i just think they take it too far. i mean, i drink - but i don't get drunk. the church believes any amount is wrong...however, the bible speaks against drunkenness, but not drinking casually or whatever. i believe in the sabbath - but i hardly practice it the way others do. i sleep...and sleep...and sleep. it's the most relaxing thing i can do - it's my sabbath...so yeh, i don't go to church much. i eat meat. the church is really against "unclean meat"...which i don't eat...but it is also somewhat against meat...although 80% of adventists eat it anyways. oh, and i gamble. i think it's fine if it's not an addiction. anything in excess isn't a great thing...i know why gambling can be bad...and i don't go that far...so yeh. i don't really practice and in fact my adventist family members would be shocked if they knew i do what i do...but yeh, i'm my own person - right? i have my own beliefs. i don't consider myself an adventist, but i consider it the closest to what i believe. it's just that everybody thinks i'm an adventist since i grew up one.
Here's how I look at it: God is good. God is perfect. When it comes down to it, however, God is directing your church by a very distant proxy. The bible, for instance, was not written directly by God, but rather by men who were inherently imperfect. They did the best they could, but were not God. These recordings were then transcribed and translated by generations of equally imperfect but well meaning human beings. To locate an inoffensive example of this, compare the 3 synoptic gospels. You will find subtle, but significant differences in how the same words spoken by Jesus. Which set is correct? The greatest hubris of the most pious people is vanity. This takes the form of believing that they can speak with certainty of god's will, much less understand God. Around the fourth or fifth century, a number of the more unorthodox biblical texts were ordered destroyed by high members of the Church. Among these were the Gospel of Thomas and The Gospel of Mary Magdalene. The Gospel of Mary Magdalene, in particular, is interesting to me, as one of the most prominent complaints against it was that it was a feminist document. But I digress... In any case, the word of God and Jesus Christ are like the twinkling stars in the night sky that sailors used to use for navigation. They exist, they are immeasurably beautiful, and they are dependable. They are also always out of reach and far enough away that it is difficult to see them with any clear definition. But, as was true for the ancient sailors, they are true enough that following what we can discern will lead us where we need to go. In the same token, one of the greatest acts of piety is forgiving people who think they speak for God. Personally, I have a hard time doing so and for years and years I confused my feelings towards these people with my feelings about God. I think it's good for your soul to forgive people who say things like were said to your mother about your father, but imperfect human beings have limits, and when the it begins to interfere with your greater faith it's time to think about a change. That having been said, I also think it's important to be able to distance yourself from the situation and realize that every faith is made up of good and bad people. I personally used to have a view of Baptists as loud authoritarians, until I discovered that my Aunt and my Grandmother, two of the meekest and unassuming people I ever knew were devout Baptists.
The church I attend (incidentally, Presbyterian) very self-consciously requires very little to be a member. You have to espouse a belief in salvation through Christ and promise to submit yourself to the authority of the Church. That's it. You can disagree with them on basically everything and they'll still love to have you as a member (though not an elder or a minister). Of course, I can't manage even that. So, I suppose I disagree with the church I attend on the existence of God and the efficacy of Christ's crucifixion for my salvation -- and indeed the need for my salvation. But, it hasn't been a problem for me in attending. People know I disagree and they're just happy I attend at all.
I grew up going to 7th day adventist churchs, then baptist, and I married a non-practicing catholic. I don't believe in organized religion for myself but I find all religious beliefs to be facinating. I had my children baptised in the catholic church for the sake of my wifes family. I'll let them make their own choices when they grow up. I'm closer to agnostic than anything now I guess.
how do adventist family members look upon that? i mean, many don't think much of the catholic church at all - just wondering the reaction it got.
No one has ever said anything about it. Most of my adventist relatives live in South Carolina and are on my dad's side of the family. My Dad is dead so he didn't have anything to say but knowing him it would have been at least an argument. He was a lot on the self rightous side and didn't mind letting other know about it.
Once a on/off catholic b/c i didn't know much about it. But what got me more involve was the orgin of the church. Christ told (St)Peter to start a church so he started the Catholic church. So the Catholic church has been around since Christ was alive. That totally recharged my beliefs.
Just live your life in a fair and just manner. Treat people right. The ten commandments or the teachings of Buddha are a good start for a basic framework. Then, if there really is an omnipotent god, he will know you were a good person, and if he is as awesome as the various religious tenets claim, he's not going to care about what you believed, as much as how you lived your life. You'll be fine. Oh yeah, born and raised Catholic, 12 years of parochial school.
I think it depends on what sorts of things you disagree with and why. There have been churches that I left because we disagreed on fundamentals. Another church I attended for a few years I simply never became a member of (they wouldn't define what their beliefs were and that never sat well with me). As JV mentioned, we attend a reformed Presbyterian church. There are some policies of the church that I disagree with but I don't have any theological disputes with any of the doctrine. The policies may or may not change but I can live with that. In fact, the ministers and elders have differing views about some of the denominations policies but they are united on doctrinal issues. Like 3814 there are many things I do that my church would denounce. Unlike 3814 I don't do them because I disagree with the church and their interpretation of the Bible. In my case I would agree that those things are sins. Some examples: pride, my failure to honor my mother, my disregard for speed limits, not loving my neighbor as I should, not loving God with all my heart, etc. Of course, I think the PCA makes it a little easier on me. There isn't an expectation that Christians live up to God's standard. We are supposed to acknowledge God's standard and our need for His saving grace. Incidently, drinking, smoking, dancing, etc. aren't really frowned upon.
I'm not sure where you came to this conclusion, but it's very different than what is written in the Bible, if that's what you're basing it on. It says that you're saved by faith and grace, not by good deeds. If you're basing it on another source, then nevermind.
for sure we're all sinners - which is human nature. i sin - for sure...i do many things i disagree with but do anyways (sometimes)...but that's what forgiveness is for. Christ died on the cross for us all and our sins. obviously i try not to keep on doing things i disagree with - because there's no sense in forgiveness if there's no progression of learning - but we do have forgiveness as an "out" when we really mess up and know it.
Sorry I don't usually read the religious threads. I stick to the ones where I defend our nation's proud troops from the liberal masses.
