I'm sure that CD is looking at all these type opps for us, using the TE. We'll probably never hear of all sorts of possibilities discussed behind closed doors, when there was some crazy reason for them not to come to fruition. But, here's one I wish could happen with our TE. <b>A 3-way trade with Seattle and Cleveland: SEA sends Booth to CLE HOU sends TE to SEA CLE sends Diop/Wagner to HOU</b> Why this works for each team: HOU - This is not perfect, but it fills the gaping needs we have, and gives us building blocks for the future, who are still on cheap rookie contracts, that if they don't work out, can always be traded for pieces that do. Both players have been injured, and so they haven't had a chance to blossom, but I believe both could turn into great players. Wagner is a great scorer, and can create his own shot. He's not a great defender, but he can knock down the 3, and pass fairly well. He's not a forever dribbler like Francis and Norris, so he could get the ball up quick to TMac, and that's really all we need. If he turns into a lights out shooter in the process, as our 3rd or 4th option, all the better, as long as he knows who gets the ball first. Diop could turn into a star, or he could just be injured a lot. But, if he ever gets going, he'll be great. Perhaps if he's not expected to start on a young team, and can play limited minutes behind Yao, he'll have the time to mature and turn into something special. These are cheap contracts, and good building blocks, and meet temporary needs for HOU, and if they don't work out, let them go for cap room, or value in trade when their contracts come up. No harm, no foul, in terms of burdening our cap with use of the TE. This is not a move that will put us in the Finals this year, but it will fill holes, and potentially give us 2 more building blocks as a future title contender alongside Yao/TMac. SEA - The big question, is why doesn't SEA just trade with CLE themselves. Well, that's probably what WILL happen, unfortunately. But, these are 2 injured guys they don't need. They already have lots of guys with potential on their team. What they really need is cap room, and to get out from under 1 or 2 of their bad contracts at center. In fact, they probably would like to trade one of the other ones to us too, if we wanted them. And, that may be what it takes to sweaten the deal, and make it happen, which may not be so bad, either. I'd like more depth at center. SEA already has 4 centers, one they just drafted who is a high schooler. They don't need another one in Diop. They are deep at the 2, and Wagner will be discontent being the third guy deep. So, perhaps they would prefer our TE, to save cap room, and give them more negotiating power when it comes to dealing with Allen, or with coming up with a trade to get them a PF. Of course, we might want to work with them on that too, helping them pull off a deal with CHI, and pocketing Duhon and/or Williams in the process. CLE - These guys are the odd men out, and the main tradable commodities they have left, and they want a backup center who can start, since Z is so injury prone. 2 injury prone centers don't cut it, now that Battie is gone. Now that Snow is there, Wagner is even more on the out, and he requested a trade earlier this year, and they want to move him. Here's what <a href="http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/basketball/nba/cleveland_cavaliers/9233393.htm">The Ohio Beacon Journal</a> had to say about this ... Posted on Sat, Jul. 24, 2004 <b>Paxson shuffles Cavs, looking to deal</b> With Battie gone, GM wants to add veteran backup for Ilgauskas By Brian Windhorst Beacon Journal staff writer CLEVELAND - It was promised earlier this week, and it will be refreshed again now: The Cavaliers probably are not done dealing. Spurred on by the departure of Carlos Boozer and aided by an active market, Cavaliers general manager Jim Paxson is remaking his roster. He has shipped out three players and two draft picks this week and has picked up four players in return. He has filled two holes -- backup point guard and power forward -- but there are more to be addressed. With the departure of Tony Battie in the trade with the Orlando Magic, the Cavaliers are in need of a solid, and likely veteran, backup at center and power forward. ``We're going to have to be aggressive in addressing the backup center spot,'' Paxson said. ``If (Zydrunas Ilgauskas) goes down, it's not a pretty sight for us.'' After a weak performance in the summer league, the Cavaliers seem to be looking for a better option than DeSagana Diop. And with a logjam at shooting guard and Eric Snow's addition at the point, Dajuan Wagner doesn't seem to have a firm spot in the rotation, either. Paxson is believed to be shopping them around the league. One option is a deal with the Seattle Supersonics, a team with extra big men and a rookie looking for playing time. After drafting 7-footer Robert Swift last month, the Sonics might be willing to part with former Cavalier Vitaly Potapenko, who is in the last year of his contract. The Sonics also might be looking to move center Jerome James, also on the final year of his deal. Both were part-time starters last season, and their salaries fit a trade for Diop and Wagner. There always are sign-and-trade possibilities with Eric Williams, as well, but no deal is believed to be close. Disappointed Lee Paxson hinted Thursday that his team wouldn't be actively looking to re-sign forward Lee Nailon, who had wanted to return to the team. ``Lee was an integral part of the Cavs' hot streak at the end of last season,'' said Larry Fox, Nailon's agent. ``His first choice was to stay with the Cavs, but we are in talks with other teams and will make them a priority.''
I would do it just because we only give up the TE, but Wagner isn't the type of player we need on this team. Wagner shoots a low FG%, a low FT%, while being somewhat of a black hole. I've read that he can be out of control many of times, which is something JVG wouldn't tolerate.
Nice idea, but I am not sure about this one. If Diop can't even bring it for Cleveland's summer league team, would he even be good enough for the minutes behind Yao? Not sure if Pig Miller or even Badiane would not be just as good (or bad). Wagner, yes, definitely interesting, but a lot of question marks...seems very injury-prone, very low fg %, inconsistent, not tall. I'd like to see him on the Rockets, but would first explore other options. Such as: Weatherspoon to the Sixers for McKie (they might want to do it because McKie is already 32 and his contract runs for two more years than Weatherspoon's) Mo Taylor to Seattle for James/Daniels (preferred due to expiring contract) or Booth/Daniels Mo Taylor and Weatherspoon and the TE to NY for Penny and Mutombo Just the TE to NY for Mutombo Weatherspoon to Toronto for Lamond Murray and Milt Palacio Mo Taylor, Weatherspoon and picks to Toronto for Jalen Rose
Dajuan Wagner once scored 100 points in a high school game. Scoring isn't really an issue with him; he'll take as many shots needed to get his. The problem is he's another combo guard who doesn't really fit the ball at the point, but is too small to play the 2 exclusively (6'2" 200 lbs). I also don't think he's too great a passer, though I could be wrong on that. He'd be a very nice addition, but not the end all be all for what we're looking for. Good creative thinking though, that's a good trade that seems to be filling everyone's needs quite nicely.
Like gucci said, I would do it as well since we would only be giving up the TE that we might not even use. If the guy isn't good enough to back up Zy in the Eastern Conference, he isn't good enough to back up Yao in the West. Another move would have to be made for some insurance at center.
With a payroll of ~$49M already and Padgett + possibly Wilks to resign, I doubt Le$ uses the $6.99M TE and risks going over the ~$55M Luxury Tax threshold if he is going to use any part of the MLE or $1.6M exception. It looks like if we sign a free agent this TE is just gonna expire out. Or maybe even no FA signing and no trade using the TE if Le$ can figure a way to unload Taylor or Pike on some team for a point guard. Le$ no doubt regularly salivates and foams at the mouth at the thought of this last scenario. He's gonna use the extra dough he saves to build a new bedroom addition to his Florida home and stuff the new mattress w/ Jacksons & Hamiltons.
From my understanding, the LT is determined at the end of the year and for 03-04 there was none declared....but the estimated threshold for 04-05 is ~$55M. If any of the more knowledgable posters on this issue could clarify otherwise that'd be appreciated.
I have the same feeling as pippendagimp. It sounds as if they are not going to use the TE as it would push them over the luxury tax limit. I think they are looking at trading a player or two to fill the holes they have. As for this proposed trade, Diop is definitley a big body which I wouldn't mind seeing on the team, but doesn't really fill the need of a backup center. He is nice to have as another big guy with six fouls right now. I feel the same way about the Cav's Boumtje-Boumtje. Who knows, both are young and could eventually turn into nice backups. Wagner to me is of the Bobby Jackson mold. He would be a nice spark off the bench, but wouldn't be an ideal starter, especially in JVG's system.
I think that with Snow joining the Cavs, Wagner would be less likely to be traded since Snow is big point guard that will allow Wagner to play at the 2 (like Iverson). They also have James that can play the point and Mcinnis is a big point guard (6'4). So playing for the Cavs seems like the ideal situation for Wagner.
In the words of the not so great Antlione Walker "I'm a volume shooter" I always loved this quote and it certainly fits what you say about Wagner. But not my kind of player.
Diop has no skills or basketball smarts wjhatsoever. what he does posses is freakish atheletic abality. JVG can mold him into a defensive beast.
A cavs deal makes sense. I think Wagner would be a great scorer off the bench - which is something the Rockets could really use. I know MoT provides a little pop off the bench - but he is more like an inconcistent starter - meaning if MoT is on, then you get 20 and 10, but on 3 out of 4 nights you get much less. Wagner was supposed to be the next Iverson - but he has not developed due to injuries. Best case scenario is a cross between Jason Terry and Iverson. Worst case scenario - like always is nothing. Most likely scenario (if he is in Houston) - a "microwave" type scorer off the bench - comes in for 15-20 minutes a game and puts up that many shots. I am all for getting him. I would love to get Eric Williams in a S&T also (maybe they would take MoT or Spoon to solidify their backup PF spot? - but doubtful due to their contracts even if it would ). Other TE options: Jason Terry (Hawks) - contract is not too long and he would really add more spice to the offense - but he cannot cover very well. The Hawks don't need the TE, so another team would need to be involved or we would have to throw in a draft pick (or players like Gaines and Boki). The Knicks - Frank Williams could be a decent PG here - TE for him and Mutumbo. The Knick lose Mutumbo (who is probably dead weight but we can hope he works as a backup C) and gain the TE which Isiah can use to help make a deal for Crawford(or any of the other deal Isiah has been linked with). Crawford - The Bulls don't want much - Boki and/or a draft pick should do it. Jerome James - An overpaid backup C that Seattle would like to dump - solves our immediate problem of needing a backup C and his contract expires at the end of the year. If we can get antonio daniels also (for draftpicks plus Griffin+Boki or Pike - then it is a great deal)
Well, I certainly wouldn't stop trading there ... that's just the beginning, and gives us more trading chits for our TE ... and Wagner could be replaced with something else. He's not integral to the deal. There's deals for Chandler, Hinrich, Duhon, Williams, Daniels, Booth and/or Lewis that could be made ... and they're not as unrealistic as one might think. I see CLE, CHI and SEA as primary trading partners, where each team wins in various trades this off-season. We've got another 2.5 months where I'll bet we see some interesting things happen.
If wagner and diop was ever worth anything, why are they being shopped? Wagner has no position and Diop can't play. When wagner came out, i thought Clev should have drafted Amare or Nene instead of a guy who doesn't have a position not to mention at the time your best player was a pg(Miller). The Rox should make a play for Terry, if not the Taylor/TE for Mutombo/Penny makes sense.
the trade with the knicks is very interesting. can penny guard PG's anymore? he is a great passer and shooter, but i think the years of not playing point may have created some bad habbits like shooting too much and turning the ball over more than he used to.
Well, this deal can be re-woked so that Wagner goes to Seattle instead of Houston, and Seattle send Antonio Daniels our way. Meaning we get Daniels and Diop for the TE, which would be a DAMN good deal. Sonics would get Wagner to be their backup PG, they get younger. They may even decide to deal Allen for some size and play a young Ridnour/Wagner backcourt. I'd send a draft pick to one of the teams to get it done too. Diop and Daniels would really solidify our team. Diop is a solid backup, blocks shots like crazy, has great size, and improved (although not stellar) conditioning. Yao/Diop MoT/Howard/Spoon JJ/Boki/AG T-Mac/Pike Daniels/Lue Perfect.
I don't think Wagner would fit too well on this team, he takes way too many shots at a low percentage...
