Remember at the end of the 00-01 season, and everyone was grouping Ray Allen in the elite shooting guards category? This year he didn't fall off really, people just came to realize he's not going to get into the Kobe-McGrady range. Finley was almost in the same position too. I think Pierce is the same way, this next season people are going to realize he's nowhere near the best. (Although still one of the top five 2's, and undoubtably a great player) Just one of those years, I think... Not to mention his team is going to fall off dramatically.
Is your point that no one is comparable to Kobe-McGrady, or that Pierce is overrated?? Those are two different statements, imo.
I think of it as both. The media and some fans were starting to lump Pierce in with Kobe and McGrady, which is of course, highly overrating him. It's not as much that no one can compare, it's that every year they try and find a new 2 to bring up who isn't at that level.
Apollo: Excellent point. It's really annoying to watch people who think that Ray Allen had a bad year, or that he lacks leadership or other intangibles. He's the same player he was a year ago. Basically, it's all about the Eastern Conference. It's so weak that almost any team has the potential to be a top seed, and any team has the potential to fall out of the playoffs. If the Nets fall off next year, people will be trying to say that Kidd lost his game. Historically, a player's status around the league is increased by a good playoff performance. The problem is that the East-coast biased media refuses to acknowledge the terrible state of the Eastern Conference and how meaningless the playoffs are at this point. First it was Carter, then Allen, and now Pierce. The common thread is the East. Look at the Raptors after Carter went down. Them winning doesn't signify that they are better without Carter... it just goes to show how weak the East is. It doesn't take a Kobe Bryant to be a star in the Eastern Conference playoffs like it does in the West. That being said, I think Pierce is a little different than Allen. He's bigger, and is a lot better at creating off the dribble. He's also about the most clutch player in the league. I know that he's in the East, but I wouldn't be surprised if he makes the leap into the territory of Kobe and Tracy next season. He may not be quite as athletic, but he's a better shooter, plays solid defense, and has the size that Allen lacks.
no paso2x it would be Lebron James is last year's Paul Pierce, said in the future one yr from now. Cat gets no lovin' Cat is to Iverson what Pierce is to McGrady/Kobe
Paul Pierce is a great player. Definitely a much much better all around player than Ray Allen. Allen is a great offensive player and shooter, maybe the best shooter in the league but Pierce is a stud. I personally think he is as good as McGrady. Also.... To even mention Cuttino Mobley's name in near the same level as Iverson, Kobe and Pierce is a joke. Mobley isn't that great. He is a good player but he is far from special.
I think that Pierce should stick around the top. He may fall off some and not have another Kobe/McGrady year, but it will be close. Seems that we have a pretty good group of swingmen right now. Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson, Cuttino Mobley, Jerry Stackhouse, Peja Stojakovic, Jalen Rose, Michael Finley, Latrell Spreewell, Allan Houston, Wally Szczerbiak, Eddie Jones, Bonzi Wells. And, then there are the up-and-coming guys like Corey Maggete, Quentin Richardson, Jason Richardson, Richard Hamilton, etc...
Finley & Allen were injured the entire 2nd half of the season. I agree that Allen is slightly overrated, but think Finley underated. Still 1 injury ridden year doesn't make me turn on a player completely.
I think Paul Pierce or Vince Carter would be stars in the West, easily the 2nd best SG in that conference. If someone says Pierce is just behind Kobe and McGrady in being an elite SG I don't think they have overrated him but are pretty much on target. Personally, I think it is pretty clear Kobe and McGrady (and I think it is very difficult to determine who is actually better between them right now) are the two best swingmen in the league. Pierce, Carter and AI are the next 3 best, but not necc. in that order (I think Pierce is the most well-rounded of the 3 however). Ray Allen is probably a solid #6--a very strong case for not being as good as the top 5 and a strong case for being better than the rest. The next group after Allen is large and you could make a case from Stack, Rose, Finley, Jones to Spree and a few more that they are that #7 guy (I'd probably go with Stack or Finley based on the last couple of years--but it is possible Mobley could surpace them however).
Paul PPG 26.1 RPG 6.9 APG 3.2 SPG 1.88 BPG 1.05 FG% .442 FT% .809 3P% .404 MPG 40.3 Tracy PPG 25.6 RPG 7.9 APG 5.3 SPG 1.57 BPG .96 FG% .451 FT% .748 3P% .364 MPG 38.3 Kobe PPG 25.2 RPG 5.5 APG 5.5 SPG 1.48 BPG .44 FG% .469 FT% .829 3P% .250 MPG 38.3 Ray PPG 21.8 RPG 4.5 APG 3.9 SPG 1.28 BPG .26 FG% .462 FT% .873 3P% .434 MPG 36.6 More fuel for the debate. IMO, statistically, Paul fits in with the elite group a lot better than Ray. Ray's numbers actually look closer to Cuttino's.
Adjusted Field Goal% (2pt FGM + (1.5 *3pt FGM))/FGA PPS (points/FGA) Ray Allen AFG% 0.561 PPS 1.31 Kobe AFG% 0.479 PPS 1.26 McGrady AFG% 0.483 PPS 1.23 Pierce AFG% .508 PPS 1.34 I believe this is where Pierce and Allen look their best compared to Kobe and McGrady. These two stats look at who makes the most out of each shot. They may not be able to create their shot as well as T Mac and Kobe, but make what they take.
smoothie, Cat AFG% 0.493 PPS 1.18 Cat's FTA went way down last year and I didn't see enough games to really speculate on why. This really hurt his PPS since this stat doesn't take into account FTA. ESPN.com does both of these stats under misc stats on player profiles and FG% under statistics. I made a little comparison of SGs in February back at my site: http://siegc.tripod.com/guardstats022002/ in response to this thread http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29217
